Why everyone wants do PotD speed run?

[Ama_Hamada]

talk to the group or go with a friend.

My friend has no issues going in there with a friend and they go look for chest. Sometimes people harass her, not helping her at all when she needs it, like getting aggro, as she tries to peak in rooms, so she vote kicks them. Speed runs are no longer speed runs if you are kicked right?

DF is not for speed running, people should not expect finding people who do not need silvers. I personally seen people not pick up chests at all even if they right right next to them. Just speak up and ask. Or do what my friend does, go off on your own and peak as the team goes in a different direction.

Some people MPK and sit there who do not get their way but that is what the kick feature and reporting is for.

[SenorPatty]

There are various degrees of speed runninh potd, from the pick chests along the way and occasional peeks to straight up minimalistic passage activation. On my server, from personal experience, most runs we just take whatever is on the way and explore rooms to find more kills until the passage is open.

Once that is activated, we mostly explore unseens room if they're in the immediate vicinity, mostly with the intent of peeking. If its an easy chest, we go for it.

On the later floors, sometime after 85+, there's less exploring because the mobs are more dangerous and combined with the traps, its just overall better to complete the floor brackets because of the time spent rather than risk a wipe.

Edit: I just wanted to add this from a thread similar to this one

This is something I feel people forget.

It needs to be pointed out first that even aside from exploding, the aethergear might not upgrade.

So rather then tunnel focusing on exploring every corner of each map for a silver chest, just pick the ones that are already on the way as you kill monsters to unlock the passage, clear the floor bracket and then re-enter a potd floor bracket again.

Focus on rate gain rather than flat gain.

[Talraen]

I would love SE to take a stance against bare minimum speed running in a friendly way. In all content. By friendly I mean not messing up player's efficiency rate making the game as a whole slower to progress, but making it far more efficient to 100% content.

In other words, the speed run of now (bare minimum) would be less effective than the speed run patch I'd like to see where doing more is more efficient (players will always want to go fast but now they go fast doing it all, but new players will greatly benefit from this mentality of "do it all"). Also taking away the bare minimum encouragement will allow SE to make dungeons more interesting with designs that would normally get ignored because it "was" all about doing the bare minimum. Side rooms, shifting passages, puzzles, mutations, flash objectives, although especially on puzzles about that shifting/not always there aspect, a puzzle you always have to do will kill people's excitement (unless it is a incredibly well hidden reward to the very attentive, like a dev secret to test how long it takes players to figure out).

While I also hate the speed running mindset, I actually disagree with this idea. No matter how much or how little content is optional, there's going to be an accepted way that content is done after it's been around a while. It's just the nature of MMOs. At best, this would just mean everyone does everything, and at worst, it would cause nasty fights between people who just want to be done quickly and people who want the best overall reward for their time. There is a way to ensure everyone does everything... and it's to not have optional dungeon content. Which appears to be what they're already doing. Honestly, I think that's for the best.

[Ama_Hamada]

Well for me PotD is only way to get a decent weapon for my jobs when i only able get ilvl 200 at the best because raids for ilvl 260 weapon are way too hard to me.And because of that i can't even beat Alexander - The Cuff of the Son because i keep dying when it's way too hard for me.

Also i know i can craft better weapons then ilvl 200 weapons but i don't crafting and because of that i only have 1 crafting job at lvl 60 and most my crafting jobs are around lvl 30.




Sadly talking to group don't help at all because they don't answer to me and don't even care about players like me who want collect silver chests when all they want is do speed run.

Also i don't have any friends to play FFXIV and same goes with FC that i'm not in any FC because i don't like be in FC.

doesn't matter, having one other person queue with helps immensely. Having 2 people being spoken out on finding chests and going together as a pair in case of aggro etc is a huge help. As said depending on their reaction, it is what kick is for, people will learn to be more cooperative, one way or another.

Also if you are looking for strictly weapon progress, there is always pvp. the 235 weapon that is super fast to get can act as a bridge to advancing.

also there is now getting 1000 scripts ( 2 weeks starting from zero, though getting it in 1 week is more likely, while doing 4 A 12 normal runs gives you a 260. After that doing each Va once upgrades it to 270)

So if deep is really unplayble for you your route can be PvP > script ( expert etc.) then when you have enough script, try climb alex again with the 235 weapon from pvp. Also remember VA weekly for a 270 right

[Nixxe]

Well for me PotD is only way to get a decent weapon for my jobs when i only able get ilvl 200 at the best because raids for ilvl 260 weapon are way too hard to me.
And because of that i can't even beat Alexander - The Cuff of the Son because i keep dying when it's way too hard for me.

Also i know i can craft better weapons then ilvl 200 weapons but i don't crafting and because of that i only have 1 crafting job at lvl 60 and most my crafting jobs are around lvl 30.

PVP also gives 235 weapons, which is adequate for Baelsar's Wall if you're not interested in doing anything more difficult. If you just do the roulette once a day, it takes less time than PotD does if you're there specifically to farm, even under ideal circumstances, though it can't be upgraded to 255 like PotD can. Just a thought.

Like I said, that's why nobody wants to dawdle. However, as I also said, just because people want to speed run doesn't mean you're obliged to comply with their wishes. There are plenty of runs I'm in where one or two people want to full clear, some where I swear to god their goal is to kill every mob even though you start out at level 60 on floors 51+. There's not much to be done about it other than grin and bear it. Similarly, when I've been the dawdler who wanted to check every room for chests and leave no silver behind, not everyone was super excited about it, but nobody was abusive and nobody kicked me for it. I find that if people make their intentions clear at the start of the run (as long as they're polite about it), most groups will be more accommodating than not.

[Shougun]

While I also hate the speed running mindset, I actually disagree with this idea. No matter how much or how little content is optional, there's going to be an accepted way that content is done after it's been around a while. It's just the nature of MMOs. At best, this would just mean everyone does everything, and at worst, it would cause nasty fights between people who just want to be done quickly and people who want the best overall reward for their time. There is a way to ensure everyone does everything... and it's to not have optional dungeon content. Which appears to be what they're already doing. Honestly, I think that's for the best.

Sure but that way is decided by what is most effective use of time, and it already makes fights. This would only shift the standard away from quantity. I disagree that it would cause any more issue.

Making every piece of content the most linear thing possible as the solution sounds rather boring, in terms of what could be possible.

[Talraen]

Sure but that way is decided by what is most effective use of time, and it already makes fights. This would only shift the standard away from quantity. I disagree that it would cause any more issue.

Making every piece of content the most linear thing possible as the solution sounds rather boring, in terms of what could be possible.

It's boring, but doing otherwise is a waste of dev work. When's the last time you saw someone do the side rooms in Sastasha in the duty finder? Or take the left path (or god forbid, both) in Toto-Rak? Or even go into the side rooms in Tam-Tara or Copperbell? I only sometimes succeed in getting people to let eggs hatch in Aurum Vale, and that actually is a much more efficient use of time. Similarly, no one gets the side loot in Wanderer's Palace, or really any dungeon unless it's literally three seconds out of the way or less (and sometimes not even then).

So what's the point of adding this content? All it does is get ignored by most of the community, and annoy those like us who actually want to explore the dungeons. Personally, I'd rather have no content to miss than be pressured to miss content.

What I do like to see to stop speed running is mechanics that punish it. However, even those tend to be totally ignored, especially once you're overgeared a bit, because people are impatient and don't really pay enough attention to mechanics in general to even notice.

[Shougun]

It's boring, but doing otherwise is a waste of dev work. When's the last time you saw someone do the side rooms in Sastasha in the duty finder? Or take the left path (or god forbid, both) in Toto-Rak? Or even go into the side rooms in Tam-Tara or Copperbell? I only sometimes succeed in getting people to let eggs hatch in Aurum Vale, and that actually is a much more efficient use of time. Similarly, no one gets the side loot in Wanderer's Palace, or really any dungeon unless it's literally three seconds out of the way or less (and sometimes not even then).

So what's the point of adding this content? All it does is get ignored by most of the community, and annoy those like us who actually want to explore the dungeons. Personally, I'd rather have no content to miss than be pressured to miss content.

Yea, and I tried to cover that (you're right that reward is very important). This is why I said you make it more efficient use of their time to do this side content, but also make it shift with that advantage. So the side room in Satasha could be a treasure room, a trap room, a mini boss (but again making sure efficiency = doing more content). Also the other point was simple (they have shown they can switch out entities on a map based on circumstances) changes that don't take much effort (well maybe a mini boss might), each one is telling players to explore but at the same time the truth is it is "optional" even though people will play it like its more mandatory. (Although that part also covered just making a dungeon varied by even making linear routes change sometimes, just so people go "What.. what happened tot he bridge we normally use?. . . I guess we'll go into this cave instead").

It plays on people's minds that its optional but not, while also allowing better variations - this is what happens with the traveling conversations (teleportating/mounts, even boss strategies). People do what is most efficient even if its not enjoyable, if you can make efficiency playing the content /more/ then you can do more things in that content that normally players would ignore entirely.

If you leave it as is, people will ignore all things to finish it faster - which is currently quantity quantity. You have less design freedom with leaving it alone, and you /can/ make things encouraged to complete more content per run vs how we have now.

Evaluating a content by the reward over time, if there are areas that are optional but make that reward over time better (or even much better) compared to bare minimum runs then people /will/ shift to doing that side content even though it is still optional. This allows you to actually design optional content again, rather than the always linear hallways we have now.

[Ferth]

Sure but that way is decided by what is most effective use of time, and it already makes fights. This would only shift the standard away from quantity. I disagree that it would cause any more issue.

Making every piece of content the most linear thing possible as the solution sounds rather boring, in terms of what could be possible.

It doesn't matter how well the content is designed if the goal for said content is to be run repeatedly. As long as grinding dungeons for tomes for gear is the chore it is then people will find and opt for the fastest way to get tomes with minimal effort.

The ultimate goal for four man dungeons, unfortunately, is currency to be spent on endgame tier items. Because of this the content is quite literally a job. It is something we spend our time on to earn money.

Creating actually interesting content that people want to experience would require a dynamic shift to how gear and dungeons themselves work. I'm not saying that is a bad thing by any measure, but I doubt the dev team will be doing this any time soon.

[Shougun]

It doesn't matter how well the content is designed if the goal for said content is to be run repeatedly. As long as grinding dungeons for tomes for gear is the chore it is then people will find and opt for the fastest way to get tomes with minimal effort.

The ultimate goal for four man dungeons, unfortunately, is currency to be spent on endgame tier items. Because of this the content is quite literally a job. It is something we spend our time on to earn money.

Creating actually interesting content that people want to experience would require a dynamic shift to how gear and dungeons themselves work. I'm not saying that is a bad thing by any measure, but I doubt the dev team will be doing this any time soon.

Which is why I was suggesting we make the most efficient activity "doing it all". I covered that in the other post (and also talked that all needs should be considered, including light farming). People will /always/ go for efficiency, that is unavoidable, but you can change the bare minimum level.

I agree in the current standard designing interesting things, especially "options", would be ignored - because of how content is rewarded. But they could change it so that bringing the dungeon to full completion is the most rewarding thing, then they open up making more interesting content as something they can do that wouldn't be a waste of their time.