Sorry Yoshi, but if you award the best weapon in the game by winning the lottery...

[Llus]

Might I suggest another reason why the i280 weapon was introduced to Diadem? Perhaps, because of the ARR relic weapon and nerfing of the encrypted tomestone from coil allowing easily obtainable i130 weapons backlash, they added i280 weapons to give raiders another option for a higher ilevel weapon to keep them interested through the end of the HW cycle?

[Miste]

Another option that would be ignored because the requirements are way too tedious for the reward.

I thought most people keep saying more options is better though? It's still another way to get i275 so isn't that good?

Also if it was only i275 maybe SE wouldn't have made it so rare, just a possibility.

Which would actually, in my opinion, benefit more players. I actually would have gone to farm them for alt jobs and people who didn't have relic or savage would have a way to get an i275 and it wouldn't be so rare like the i280 is and barely benefit no one...but hey that's just an idea :/

Where were your complains when Creator was "the only option" ?

You are making the wrong assumption that I actually care about getting the i280 weapon. I'm not going to bother; it's not worth my time.

So if you read my post properly you will see I am not complaining it is the only option since I don't actually care. It was an objective reply about their argument with some of my opinions about relic that I feel should have been top weapon for at least a month for the players who put time into it.

I was pointing out a flaw in their argument about options; NOT complaining about there being only one option.

All you have to do is notice what I wrote:

Heck if they had just released it a month after relic completion even if it was still i280 I wouldn't care.

So if they added i280 at end of March I would have zero issue with it...so why do you think I am actually complaining about it being the only option even though I would have accepted it if it would have been added a bit later? Read carefully.

My only personal issue with the i280 weapon was how soon it was released after the final relic step (9 days). No other personal issues with it, but that doesn't mean I cannot make neutral objective replies about other player's grievances or say that people are allowed to voice their criticism.

[Neophyte]

Another option that would be ignored because the requirements are way too tedious for the reward.

The requirement can be adjusted. Nobody said that with a 275 weapon from Diadem they should stick to their 0,01% chance to obtain one.

Where were your complains when Creator was "the only option" ?

There were always complaints that there are not enough "options" and with that implied "equal" options.

People didn't demand a new set of 280 or 290 items within a gear tier (people already complain that gear replacement is too fast). They are complaining that there are only 2 choices per slot.

As said... Diadem with a new designed 270 gearset + a 275 weapon and it would have been a success, incentive wise. People still do 24-man, although it gives only one upgrade per week and 260 stuff. It's far away from dead.


Nevertheless.. it's a fact that there were never any complaints like "we want faster gear replacement and faster ilvl rise, so please give us not only higher ilvl at a new gear tier, but 1-3 months before that."

Most people are either ok with the current pacing, but there are also a lot who find it's too fast. But where are the people who demanded something like this?
That alone is enough to estimate the backlash.

Might I suggest another reason why the i280 weapon was introduced to Diadem? Perhaps, because of the ARR relic weapon and nerfing of the encrypted tomestone from coil allowing easily obtainable i130 weapons backlash, they added i280 weapons to give raiders another option for a higher ilevel weapon to keep them interested through the end of the HW cycle?

That's what raiders think of this garbage.

[ErryK]

That's what raiders think of this garbage.

Why did they make a video about it though? :thinking:

Of course it is perceived, because thats how progression in this game works. Let ask you, why do people play this game? Why do people play beyond the story, grinding relics, doing raids? There is no fixed endgame, but there is progression. An i275 for 6 months has represented endgame, a fixed goalpost that says "i have reached the end of progression, i have beaten the gear cycle", stormblood comes out in 3 months yes, but out of the blue Yoshi and the team decided to move the goalpost, right when people were about to reach it, and for some reason that's ok. It doesn't allow for more choice, it doesn't allow for Catchup, it simply "forces" the goalpost to involve diadem in a big way

I don't get this whole "it forces it into Diadem", no it doesn't? You can beat all content without Diadem weapons... you want to know the end of progression? When you can beat the endgame raid. You can do that with i270/275 weapons, hell, Angered beat it with i250/i255 weapons, and to be honest, it's a load of wallop that people think i280 is a necessity at this point. Everyone is pushing this "You have to get the i280 weapon to even compete", well, I think your signature puts it very well. "You were just going to spend those 5 minutes bullshitting in Idyllshire anyway".

So just curious....to the people who are okay with SE's decision to put i280 weapons nine days after relic completion step..

What if at 4.0 the devs decide to do this....

Omega raid first 4 turns is released and the last boss fight in turn 4 drops i315 weapons.
BUT...9 days after this ^ is released they add an i315 RNG weapon to Diadem or PotD or Aquapolis or make the i315 relic step available to complete right then if you do the work.

Is this okay?

Is it okay? No, because let's see: i275 step became available 27 Feb, i280 weapons became available 9 Mar, i275 Raid weapons were added September 26th.

Weaving a situation like that and then attempting to compare is a cheap shot at the people who don't have an issue. As far as I'm concerned, I don't have an issue because it's the end of an expansion/patch cycle. If this happened in the middle of a cycle, it'd be infuriating to me. It's not hypocrisy, it's just a simple matter of not mucking it up because it would mean i280 weapon holders would have an advantage at beating the next set of raids purely because raids operate in "Who can damage the most?", unless of course the next tier of gear began at i290 gear and weapons anyways...

Then why couldn't it have come IN 4.0? Or at least after 3.56 to help all the people crying about getting murdered by Vishap 2.0

This is a fair point to make, at that point it'd be a leveling weapon, but I'm pretty sure Diadem being boring as is, is the reason why the i280 weapons are in, but to be honest, the people complaining don't get that they don't need the i280 weapons... and I'm honestly baffled why people expect they need them and are making such a commotion about what is nothing more than a medal for being extremely lucky.

[Reynhart]

Also if it was only i275 maybe SE wouldn't have made it so rare, just a possibility.

Raiders and Anima owners wouldn't have done Diadem if the weapon was only i275. With an i280, everyone has a change of improving their gear. Weher they have to motivation to do it another matter, which can be discussed for just every other content.

You are making the wrong assumption that I actually care about getting the i280 weapon.

Not you particularly. People complain about Diadem giving the best weapon for the next three months, yet they were totally fine for Creator giving the best weapon for the past 6 months.

My only personal issue with the i280 weapon was how soon it was released after the final relic step (9 days).

Your personal issue should be that the Anima weapon was not released sooner. Zodiac weapons (i125) were released at the same time as Final Coil where i260 Anima was released 2 months after Creator Savage.

[ErryK]

Zodiac weapons (i125) were released at the same time as Final Coil where i260 Anima was released 2 months after Creator Savage.

We can thank their decision of making the Anima i210 at launch instead of i200 or some such item level, it massively threw off the Anima's progression as opposed to 2.0 where they increased the Allagan weapons to be +5 item levels, I'm not quite sure why they decided to do that, but yes, I believe that's the reason why.

[Llus]

That's what raiders think of this garbage.

Then what's the complaint if you don't want it? I didn't suggest you had to like the weapon or want it; I offered a hypothesis as to another reason they included the 280 weapon, to keep raiders interested. If you're not interested then they failed if that was their intent - however, given that you traded in that 280 weapon to the spoils collector it actually looks like they succeeded in their intent. For a lot of other people, they also appear to have succeeded in their intent and that is to keep them subscribed and interested through the end of the HW content and into SB by giving them a carrot; which because of the drop rates - it really is a carrot on a stick. I still fail to see how that invalidates - as so many have said - any work done in obtaining a creator weapon or anima weapon. I personally won't even try for the 280 weapon because I just despise the content itself. I hated Diadem 1 and, even though I haven't tried D2, that content just doesn't appeal to me.

[Aquaslash]

Not you particularly. People complain about Diadem giving the best weapon for the next three months, yet they were totally fine for Creator giving the best weapon for the past 6 months.

.

That's because Creator is the "hardest" content in the game so it SHOULD give the best gear. It was also expected that Anima was an alternative route to end game stats based on time vs skill, and most were ok with that. Even raiders worked on Anima on the side as Creator had bad stat rolls for a lot of jobs (Det/SS for DRG? Really?)

Besides, if the 280 is ultimately useless til Stormblood, why not add something more exciting and less offensive? Like a spellsword or a katana? Right now, I'm refusing to do diadem out of principle. However, if they were offering katanas, even of existing sets like Ironworks and Dreadwyrm, you better believe that I'd drop my A12S progression (which is at around 8% on 2nd puddles) in a heartbeat and thrown everything I had into chasing a katana. Can I just buy one at SB launch? Yes, but I'd want one NOW and I'd want to get my glamour started.

They could also just hand out a million gil, or a million MGP, or 100 Mhachi Matter, or 99 random primal tokens, or instacap all of your tomes, scrips, and seals, or cap your wolf marks, etc etc

You see that, that's a whole bunch of possible incentives that would have enticed raiders and anima grinders alike and doesn't disturb the balance of the end game. The 280 weapon is a copout, and a poorly thought out one at that

[Neophyte]

Then what's the complaint if you don't want it? I didn't suggest you had to like the weapon or want it; I offered a hypothesis as to another reason they included the 280 weapon, to keep raiders interested. If you're not interested then they failed if that was their intent - however, given that you traded in that 280 weapon to the spoils collector it actually looks like they succeeded in their intent.

Well, the 280 was just a byproduct of obtaining the mount I think. It's not like we're farming the weapon to trade the in, lol.

For a lot of other people, they also appear to have succeeded in their intent and that is to keep them subscribed and interested through the end of the HW content and into SB by giving them a carrot; which because of the drop rates - it really is a carrot on a stick. I still fail to see how that invalidates - as so many have said - any work done in obtaining a creator weapon or anima weapon. I personally won't even try for the 280 weapon because I just despise the content itself. I hated Diadem 1 and, even though I haven't tried D2, that content just doesn't appeal to me.

I'm subscribed and stay subscribed, but to use a unexpected and absolutly unbalanced weapon as an incentive is just the most lame attemp to get people into a content.
Yes, savage had his "unique" weapon, too. But that one was in balance, only having a slight higher value than a good 270 one (+1 WD, 10ish more substats, 2 substats) and therefore competing on almost even ground with other ways to obtain high weapons.

It will be annoying that my farm groups (as soon as the lockout is removed) is competing for players with the lame diadem, just because they slapped a 280 weapon onto it.

Instead of making such a content, they could have made a supplementary content, like the scripture/savage gear, which are both used to complete a desired gear set. Some imagined their desired gear with a relic, some with an upgraded weapon, some with a 275 savage weapon, some gear from there, some gear from here, update from hunts, some materia slapped on it, etc...
Diadem is not supplementary, it's replacing. The proto ultima gear was well recieved, why do you think people were pleased with those (not talking about the Encounter, just about the rewards)?
Do you think a 280 right side would have recieved even better feedback and people would've been even more satisfied compared to the new 270 stuff we got? Maybe if only on out of the 24 man get a random one (not for their class) with 0,001% chance? Would that be cool?
No. It would've killed A9S in an instant and everyone would run Dun Scath and bail after Ultima. Wow, great.

And people complain because they feel the current decision is euqally bad.

Imagine PotD was not just only the fastest way of leveling, but with PotD you could also reach Level 61 (with additional stat boosts). Would this be bad and an unfair incentive towards the other level opportunites (not only difference in speed, but also value of the reward much higher)? Why? In Stormblood (only 3 months!!!) the Level cap is raised anyway. /shrug

[Reynhart]

There were always complaints that there are not enough "options" and with that implied "equal" options.

Raiders frequently complained that Savage was not the only option. The real problem with options is not really to have one or several, but to have one content cover every need.

As said... Diadem with a new designed 270 gearset + a 275 weapon and it would have been a success, incentive wise.

No, it wouldn't. Raiders wouldn't group with "casuals" to gain a kind of weapon they already have, and Anima owners wouldn't do it either since their alt job would easily obtain a wapon powerful enough for any content, and their main already has the BiS weapon.

People still do 24-man, although it gives only one upgrade per week and 260 stuff. It's far away from dead.

"Once a week" is not particularly "alive". Especially if you intend it to still be alive for the next three months.

it's a fact that there were never any complaints like "we want faster gear replacement and faster ilvl rise, so please give us not only higher ilvl at a new gear tier, but 1-3 months before that."

It's a fact that lots of people of having nothing to do at all between 2.5 and 3.0.

But where are the people who demanded something like this?

All the people that asked for new relevant content do so beside Savage and are upset that their character only improves every 6 months.

That's because Creator is the "hardest" content in the game so it SHOULD give the best gear.

It really depends on people, in fact. You have some skilled players totally unable to have the patience to farm for the Anima of the Diadem. For them, Anima is "harder". Savage has the highest skill requiement, but, first, skill is not the only thing that should be rewarded, and second, skill doesn't have to cover every reward.

Besides, if the 280 is ultimately useless til Stormblood, why not add something more exciting and less offensive? Like a spellsword or a katana?

What's the point ? It's even more useless than an i280 weapon.

Imagine PotD was not just only the fastest way of leveling, but with PotD you could also reach Level 61 (with additional stat boosts). Would this be bad and an unfair incentive towards the other level opportunites (not only difference in speed, but also value of the reward much higher)? Why? In Stormblood (only 3 months!!!) the Level cap is raised anyway.

It sure would be a great way to push people doing PotD again, yes. Or, even more, you make PotD a requirement to unlock a unique Necromancer job.