Should the Heavensward Leveling dungeons and trials have item level requirements?

[Nixxe]

It's so weird...this response of yours...it is like you didn't read what I said past the first paragraph...Oh well...

I guess you also didn't read my other recent post either about Dusk Vigil problems I've encountered.

Did you catch the post on the first page about the Vault?

Never mind that I specifically and clearly responded to things past the first paragraph, I guess.

You have a kick function for the rare instances where people can't do whatever. Feel free to use it.

[Ama_Hamada]

There is a post above waiting for a reply that I made.

[Nixxe]

That is all I am going to say, give me more respect and I will start doing the same. You are enabling people to be lazy for no reason, it is disrespectful to anyone that has to clear a DF with them. There is no holes with what I said.

If that is really your stance then you should be proposing ALL DFS to be able cleared nakkied since putting effort into gearing is too hard and "not fun"

This is an absurd notion of respect that crosses the line into entitlement. I'm being amicable towards you. To suggest I am being disrespectful to you simply because I disagree with you and simply because I don't think other players exist to do whatever I want is utterly insane. I obviously made a mistake by replying to you again. I will not repeat that mistake.

[Ama_Hamada]

Sorry, asking people to be prepared is not entitlement. entitlement is expecting me to carry people that are under geared. So yes that is majorly disrespectful to me. I do not understand why people should be "entitled" to being max 60 in 270 gear in 4 days of playing, that is how you are sounding to me, that or you expect new players to be carried up to the last msq quest in level 1 gear by people. fortunately the MSQ quests have some standard and makes that impossible, maybe those should be harder then the gatecheck?

The DF should not let you enter it with crafter gear on. This should not be happening:

This is a tank queueing for a dungeon wearing all crafting gear and healing accessories and level 50 weapon going into level 60 content. The game let me do it. So I guess it isn't a problem?

Happened to me in the 50 roulette, Amdapor Hard with a BLM that not only had a lvl 17 weapon, but also mostly gathering accessories and a lvl 27 shield, even without parsing, it was clear their contribution was absolutely pathetic and detrimental to the dungeon (they actually didn't have enough HP to survive many basic mechanics) so me and my friend (healer and DPS respectively) had to pick up their slack to get a clear. This is not okay, why are DPS allowed to enter with DoL/DoH accessories anyway? Why are they even allowed to enter with a lvl 17 weapon?

Also, the argument that it doesn't matter since you cleared the instance is a very flimsy excuse, carrying people who are too lazy and/or inconsiderate to pull their own weight shouldn't be encouraged, it is not too much to ask someone to not enter an instance with a weapon 130 ilvls below the par.

Okay so I know the DF has rules in place for average item level in order to queue for specific content, but I find what I just saw to be very ridiculous in terms of what the DF will allow players to do.


Also just some factual testing of why weapon is so important that the game should not allow what this BLM did...

Just before maintanence, needed to do one last DR:Expert.

The DRG in the party was red dotting / dc'ing while in the first cutscene so scoped out their gear.

They had a whole tonne of 260/270 stuff, both left and right side but their weapon was a.... True Ice Spear!

As in, the i110 lvl 50 Shiva weapon..

At level 60.
In a DR:Ex....

I mean.... This was a mistake right? Surely they were just trying on some glamour before they entered and they were going to switch when we started the dungeon...
Honestly won't know because they D/c'd after 5-10 mins of being stuck in the little force field thingy at the start so we couldn't finish our DR:Ex anyway.

As far as a stat check is concerned - I think there should be a "minimum weapon iLvl" check as well.. Weapon damage just accounts for far too much, regardless what role you are playing.

It was an issue back then too. One of the reasons why I would see wipes on Bismarck NM was because people were still using their i90-i100 relic weapons. The maxed out versions I could understand, but 90-100 in a lv 57 trial?

Would be nice was running the Vault today and the healer was so under geared that if the first boss used his LB move on them it would one shot them and it took 3 runs getting lucky that they didn't get targeted to beat it

You have disrespected both me and Miste for not taking time to understand what we are really saying. I told you that you missed my point and your reply was I had none. That is beyond rude and now proven you are not worth my time.

[Miste]

Never mind that I specifically and clearly responded to things past the first paragraph, I guess.

No...you didn't. You keep reiterating things I already addressed... Like again this quote:

You have a kick function for the rare instances where people can't do whatever. Feel free to use it.

I already addressed this multiple times:

You can vote kick people, sure, but in the end they still wasted their time and everyone elses because now you have to sit there waiting for member in progress which sometimes a long time passes and you don't get a replacement and then sometimes whole group just ends up leaving and having to requeue...so...move on with your day? Maybe or maybe you end up wasting 20-40 minutes.

Why put up with that wasted time when it could all be solved by just adjusting the DF system a bit.

and wearing an i42 weapon one time <.< suffice it to say he couldn't hold hate and was getting rekt so bad the healer ends up dead from healing him and we had to vote kick...in the end we waited 10 mins for a rep tank and never got one so we all had to requeue.

So can you give me a logical reason for players to just accept this wasted time and not simply ask for changes to be made? Do you know how long DPS queues are sometimes to end up having to disband and requeue? This isn't no '15 seconds of my day' wasted like you ridiculously claimed in a response to Ama. It's like anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour depending on the situation.

You also ignored the question I asked in my last response to you.

So, can you actually give me a logical reason not to add simple basic minimum item levels so players who are queuing actually have gear strong enough to survive the unavoidable damage in the dungeon?

"Use vote kick" has already been refuted as not 100% solving the issue. Time was still wasted and if no replacement is forth coming usually people ditch out and ends up so everyone has to requeue. So in the end the player did actually stop the group from completing the content and now everyone has to wait in line again.

I'm being amicable towards you.

To be fair in your response to me you called us whiners. So Ama might have been upset about that since you basically called everyone asking for this change "whining about it" so that includes them as well. Not sure that is very amicable really.

I mean my first post responding to you was completely respectful, so I don't think it was necessary tbh.

simply because I don't think other players exist to do whatever I want

You're still missing the point. It isn't what WE want. We are pointing out what the GAME demands in order to complete the content.

If you have a healer getting one shot by the sword LB on first boss of the Vault that means that the player is not geared properly for the GAME'S DEMANDS. The game does not intend for the healer to get one shot and wipe the party 3 times, therefore the game demands you need a specific amount of HP/defense/VIT w/e to survive the unavoidable damage.

In this entire game of FFXIV unavoidable damage should NEVER one shot someone that has full health, protect, and no avoidable debuffs on their character like "Vulnerability Up" which makes them take more damage. Simple facts. (The only exception to this would be Tanks, since some tank busters like in A12S for example can one shot a tank if they forget to use a tank defensive cooldown)

[SaitoHikari]

This entire thread is basically tl;dr, but I'd like to propose an alternate solution of my own.

Make accessories not contribute towards item level at all.

In the vast majority of cases where undergeared players cheese item level requirements to get into dungeons that they have little to no chance of clearing (or expect a carry), it's done through equipping accessories that don't even belong to their class, because accessories have no class restrictions. And accessories also happen to be the easiest high item level gear to get. In such cases, it's BLATANTLY clear that the ONLY reason they're equipping such accessories is because they want people to carry them through something they shouldn't have any business doing in the first place.

This type of solution will basically ensure that players WILL actually meet the statistical requirement to make a meaningful contribution towards dungeon runs, if only because the weapons and armors have much tighter class restrictions to equip them.

[Ama_Hamada]

This entire thread is basically tl;dr, but I'd like to propose an alternate solution of my own.

Make accessories not contribute towards item level at all.

In the vast majority of cases where undergeared players cheese item level requirements to get into dungeons that they have little to no chance of clearing (or expect a carry), it's done through equipping accessories that don't even belong to their class, because accessories have no class restrictions. And accessories also happen to be the easiest high item level gear to get.

No that is not a fix since tanks esp need a set amount of hp and at times, depending on the situation needs the right to meet it. The best fix is outlined here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t....-4.0-reminder.

[DaikiKiyoshi]

I'm sorry, but it's clear you're really just not the sort of person I can have a productive conversation with.

They need {Stoneskin}. Very much too easily 'insulted' imho.

On topic, I don't really believe having a requirement like this for leveling dungeons and trials is necessary. As has already been stated the tools to deal with this are already available and it would just be a waste of dev time and resources to try to create an absolutely stress free environment for everyone when it's not even possible. People need to learn to not get so easily stressed at these altogether rare situations and just move on with life.

[Ama_Hamada]

They need {Stoneskin}. Very much too easily 'insulted' imho.

On topic, I don't really believe having a requirement like this for leveling dungeons and trials is necessary. As has already been stated the tools to deal with this are already available and it would just be a waste of dev time and resources to try to create an absolutely stress free environment for everyone when it's not even possible. People need to learn to not get so easily stressed at these altogether rare situations and just move on with life.

You know what a real waste of time was? taking chat out of PvP, that is what truly is not needed
This change however is, and you still did not address Miste on those so called tools we have.

They are not enough.
1. You get a 4 hour cooldown
2. you have a 4 hour cooldown even though you have to kick someone jsut for being offline 5+ minutes.
3. So the kick feature is not a fix/solution to this.
4. there are toxic players expecting you just deal with it and carry them because they are with a friend in a premade.
5. it takes 5 minutes of being there before you can
6:

You can vote kick people, sure, but in the end they still wasted their time and everyone elses because now you have to sit there waiting for member in progress which sometimes a long time passes and you don't get a replacement and then sometimes whole group just ends up leaving and having to requeue...so...move on with your day? Maybe or maybe you end up wasting 20-40 minutes.

7:

Four times have gotten tanks wearing really low item level gear and wearing an i42 weapon one time <.< suffice it to say he couldn't hold hate and was getting rekt so bad the healer ends up dead from healing him and we had to vote kick...in the end we waited 10 mins for a rep tank and never got one so we all had to requeue.

8: I find issues with people rejecting a change just because they want to abuse it themselves, be lazy and have others carry them. Enough is enough it needs to stop.

[wicked-one]

[x] signed, Hell yes.

Because THIS accompanied me in todays lvl.59 Great Gubal Library

> Img Link somehow broken

http://imgur.com/a/YMu9C