Should the Heavensward Leveling dungeons and trials have item level requirements?

[Nixxe]

To take the aproach from this point of view "Would it be okay to go into Dusk Vigil with Gear from AV?" cause it's just a leveling dungeon and not so far into the level 50 endgame. This was spiced with some irony ofc.
The problem with this is, that Dusk Vigil is level 51 and not more 50 and it's mobs are thougher than the ones in keeper of the lake (min average ilvl 90), so i don't see any harm to set a min ilvl for this dungeons, especially this Dungeon is beyond level 50 and it's dungeon endgame, so the requirements should be beyond level 50 dungeon endgame too.

It seems rather doubtful they're getting in there with a full set of gear from Aurum Vale. It's not something I've encountered and it seems rather unlikely it's any sort of pervasive problem, if it's a problem at all, that requires a systemic solution to address it. If you get someone who is so woefully undergeared that they simply can't do their job, kick them (though be polite about it) and move on with your day. The need for an ilvl at endgame is because further character power growth comes entirely from ilvl, as opposed to actual level. The minimum requirement for leveling dungeons comes in the form of level instead.

EVERY DF in the game needs requirements, just because it is "rare" does not mean I enjoy carrying and stress healing undergreaed people.



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It is needed, every DF needs it.
Also every DF needs a WEAPON level requirement, and a stat level requirement (as in you need so much hp, so much main stat, to pass.)

average item level gates are too easy to exploit.

I don't think the game should have to be designed cater to idiosyncratic requirements for your mental well-being. As was covered last time, from a quantitative perspective what you called "stressful" should have been a walk in the park, even if it required the healer to actual heal.

[Ama_Hamada]

I don't think the game should have to be designed cater to idiosyncratic requirements for your mental well-being. As was covered last time, from a quantitative perspective what you called "stressful" should have been a walk in the park, even if it required the healer to actual heal.

the game should not cater to the lazy and allowing a system that makes 3 people to do all the work for them. You are insulting me why now?

[Nixxe]

the game should not cater to the lazy and allowing a system that makes 3 people to do all the work for them. You are insulting me why now?

I'm not insulting you at all. I'm pointing out that you, or your friend as the case may be, seem to have a rather low threshold for stress in this game, as evidenced by your own explanation of the situation. I simply don't think game design needs (or even can) accommodate the totality of each individual's individuality. There is already a minimum level requirement, the simple fact that most players are interested in their group succeeding, and if worst comes to worst a kick function. We don't need further requirements. We already have the tools and environment we need to solve the situation already.

[Ama_Hamada]

I'm not insulting you at all. I'm pointing out that you, or your friend as the case may be, seem to have a rather low threshold for stress in this game, as evidenced by your own explanation of the situation. I simply don't think game design needs (or even can) accommodate the totality of each individual's individuality. There is already a minimum level requirement, the simple fact that most players are interested in their group succeeding, and if worst comes to worst a kick function. We don't need further requirements. We already have the tools and environment we need to solve the situation already.

Yes you do, people harass others though premades and expect you to deal with it. I left a DF and even took a 30 min because I refused to carry someone undergraed in array. You have no idea on the degree of undergrear we speak of, they should not be allowed in.

Have you ever been in sastasha with people using level 1 gear? yes it is easy to carry but i am tired of doing it. It is getting worse and worse with it being more and more frequent. People are not learning, ALL DFS NEED requirements to enter, I/E it is not asking much to have people be in level 8 + in all slots for sastasha. I am tried of seeing crafting and gathering accessory in the DF. Level requirements does not work if people are willing to exploit it and bypass it.

The REASON it is not in the game is because SE prob though it would not be needed. Honestly I wouldn't either. I never expect people be so selfish and not doing their best. I also never expected 1 person to hold a minor grievance (something that person caused in the first place with the repeated feign pulling) so hard they would chose wipe the run and forcing a vote abandon because they wanted to show the ability to MPK a person.

Also claiming you are not insulting me then do so in the next sentence, 10/10.

[Nixxe]

Yes you do, people harass others though premades and expect you to deal with it. I left a DF and even took a 30 min because I refused to carry someone undergraed in array. You have no idea on the degree of undergrear we speak of, they should not be allowed in.

Have you ever been in sastasha with people using level 1 gear? yes it is easy to carry but i am tired of doing it. It is getting worse and worse with it being more and more frequent. People are not learning, ALL DFS NEED requirements to enter, I/E it is not asking much to have people be in level 8 + in all slots for sastasha. I am tried of seeing crafting and gathering accessory in the DF. Level requirements does not work if people are willing to exploit it and bypass it.

The REASON it is not in the game is because SE prob though it would not be needed. Honestly I wouldn't either. I never expect people be so selfish and not doing their best. I also never expected 1 person to hold a minor grievance (something that person caused in the first place with the repeated feign pulling) so hard they would chose wipe the run and forcing a vote abandon because they wanted to show the ability to MPK a person.

Also claiming you are not insulting me then do so in the next sentence, 10/10.

I'm sorry, but it's clear you're really just not the sort of person I can have a productive conversation with.

[DaikiKiyoshi]

I'm sorry, but it's clear you're really just not the sort of person I can have a productive conversation with.

They need {Stoneskin}. Very much too easily 'insulted' imho.

On topic, I don't really believe having a requirement like this for leveling dungeons and trials is necessary. As has already been stated the tools to deal with this are already available and it would just be a waste of dev time and resources to try to create an absolutely stress free environment for everyone when it's not even possible. People need to learn to not get so easily stressed at these altogether rare situations and just move on with life.

[Ama_Hamada]

They need {Stoneskin}. Very much too easily 'insulted' imho.

On topic, I don't really believe having a requirement like this for leveling dungeons and trials is necessary. As has already been stated the tools to deal with this are already available and it would just be a waste of dev time and resources to try to create an absolutely stress free environment for everyone when it's not even possible. People need to learn to not get so easily stressed at these altogether rare situations and just move on with life.

You know what a real waste of time was? taking chat out of PvP, that is what truly is not needed
This change however is, and you still did not address Miste on those so called tools we have.

They are not enough.
1. You get a 4 hour cooldown
2. you have a 4 hour cooldown even though you have to kick someone jsut for being offline 5+ minutes.
3. So the kick feature is not a fix/solution to this.
4. there are toxic players expecting you just deal with it and carry them because they are with a friend in a premade.
5. it takes 5 minutes of being there before you can
6:

You can vote kick people, sure, but in the end they still wasted their time and everyone elses because now you have to sit there waiting for member in progress which sometimes a long time passes and you don't get a replacement and then sometimes whole group just ends up leaving and having to requeue...so...move on with your day? Maybe or maybe you end up wasting 20-40 minutes.

7:

Four times have gotten tanks wearing really low item level gear and wearing an i42 weapon one time <.< suffice it to say he couldn't hold hate and was getting rekt so bad the healer ends up dead from healing him and we had to vote kick...in the end we waited 10 mins for a rep tank and never got one so we all had to requeue.

8: I find issues with people rejecting a change just because they want to abuse it themselves, be lazy and have others carry them. Enough is enough it needs to stop.

[Miste]

It's not something I've encountered and it seems rather unlikely it's any sort of pervasive problem, if it's a problem at all, that requires a systemic solution to address it. If you get someone who is so woefully undergeared that they simply can't do their job, kick them (though be polite about it) and move on with your day.

Just because you haven't encountered it doesn't mean it is rare. Like if you had never seen a cricket...does that mean they don't exist or must be very rare? I don't know about you but I hear them all over the place in the summer at night even if I don't see them with my eyes.

People have shared problems with people queuing with improper gear so it exists. The main issue isn't about how often it happens just the fact that it would be simple to stop it from being possible at all and avoid annoyance and wasted time.

You can vote kick people, sure, but in the end they still wasted their time and everyone elses because now you have to sit there waiting for member in progress which sometimes a long time passes and you don't get a replacement and then sometimes whole group just ends up leaving and having to requeue...so...move on with your day? Maybe or maybe you end up wasting 20-40 minutes.

Why put up with that wasted time when it could all be solved by just adjusting the DF system a bit. A lot of DF content already has item level requirements on it so obviously it wouldn't be difficult to do the same for the content that is currently missing item level reqs.

[Nixxe]

Just because you haven't encountered it doesn't mean it is rare. Like if you had never seen a cricket...does that mean they don't exist or must be very rare? I don't know about you but I hear them all over the place in the summer at night even if I don't see them with my eyes.

People have shared problems with people queuing with improper gear so it exists. The main issue isn't about how often it happens just the fact that it would be simple to stop it from being possible at all and avoid annoyance and wasted time..

You can vote kick people, sure, but in the end they still wasted their time and everyone elses because now you have to sit there waiting for member in progress which sometimes a long time passes and you don't get a replacement and then sometimes whole group just ends up leaving and having to requeue...so...move on with your day? Maybe or maybe you end up wasting 20-40 minutes.

Why put up with that wasted time when it could all be solved by just adjusting the DF system a bit. A lot of DF content already has item level requirements on it so obviously it wouldn't be difficult to do the same for the content that is currently missing item level reqs.

This is a pretty poor analogy that also fails to capture my argument and my reasoning. For our purposes, simply hearing a cricket would constitute encountering one, as we know with quite a bit of certainty what a cricket sounds like and can therefore confidently identify crickets and recognize their presence simply from the sound. However, what hearing a cricket or a few crickets wouldn't tell you, especially if the ones you're listening to are in a cage on the desk of an entomologist, is how common they are out in the wild. Sure, they may seem really common if you consider only the cage filled with crickets, but it's a poor reflection of reality. Furthermore, you're essentially accusing me of making a hasty generalization (somewhat ironic, given that's ultimately what people are doing to argue in favor of this), but my argument is purely statistical in nature: the more runs I do without encountering the problem, the less likely it is that there's some rampant dilemma of this nature. I never denied that it happens at all, merely questioned the frequency with which it occurs. You may dismiss frequency as irrelevant, but nothing could be further from the truth. Virtually all problems and problem solving need to consider the frequency with which a problem occurs to help determine what is an appropriate response. In this case, the proposed solution is to institute some sort of minimum ilvl requirement for dungeons, even though there's already a level requirement and despite the fact that ARR leveling dungeons had no need for such things. In implementing this for what is essentially a rare problem at best, you'll inconvenience people who might slip in under any suggested minimum now without burdening their group, as these dungeons are quite easy and gear isn't particularly important. As I've said several times now, you have the tools you need to handle the problem if you encounter it already. There's absolutely no need for further restrictions simply because you'd rather whine than solve the problem

[Ama_Hamada]

This is a pretty poor analogy that also fails to capture my argument and my reasoning. For our purposes, simply hearing a cricket would constitute encountering one, as we know with quite a bit of certainty what a cricket sounds like and can therefore confidently identify crickets and recognize their presence simply from the sound. However, what hearing a cricket or a few crickets wouldn't tell you, especially if the ones you're listeningto are in a cage on the desk of an entomologist, is how common they are out in the wild. Sure, they may seem really common if you consider only the cage filled with crickets, but it's a poor reflection of reality. Furthermore, you're essentially accusing me of making a hasty generalization (somewhat ironic, given that's ultimately what people are doing to argue in favor of this), but my argument is purely statistical in nature: the more runs I do without encountering the problem, the less likely it is that there's some rampant dilemma of this nature. I never denied that it happens at all, merely questioned the frequency with which it occurs. You may dismiss frequency as irrelevant, but nothing could be further from the truth. Virtually all problems and problem solving need to consider the frequency with which a problem occurs to help determine what is an appropriate response. In this case, the proposed solution is to institute some sort of minimum ilvl requirement for dungeons, even though there's already a level requirement and despite the fact that ARR leveling dungeons had no need for such things. In implementing this for what is essentially a rare problem at best, you'll inconvenience people who might slip in under any suggested minimum now without burdening their group, as these dungeons are quite easy and gear isn't particularly important. As I've said several times now, you have the tools you need to handle the problem if you encounter it already. There's absolutely no need for further restrictions simply because you'd rather whine than solve the problem

SE changed the Queue system to give a penalty if someone misses a queue. I really doubt there was more queue trolling then this issue now. It should be changed, no one should be allowed in 60+ content from gear they found in sashsha while having crafting gear on for other slots.

It does not matter how frequent it happens, it should NOT BE ALLOWED IN THE FIRST PLACE! Stop enabling people to be lazy and play in inappropriate gear and have more stressful time on healers. Did you ever think just maybe you are simply NOT NOTICING it?

Where does "hand me gear or i am going to play gimp" mentality even come from? This would not last a day in old FFXI. Why does a game need give people EVERYTHING to advance in MSQ?!?!?!?!!? Why can't people put some effort into gear and learning their class????