Stop Giving the "Need" Command for Drop Gear in Dungeons to Higher Geared Players!

[Cordie]

and neither is whether a healer piece will drop at all. it's part of the range that the chart doesn't care about.

J : total number of jobs in the role
S : number of slots for the role
Jn : number of jobs that can need on the item type
Sn : number of slots occupied by jobs that can need on the item type
N : number of item types

calculation as follows:

Jn < J :


Jn = J :
(SnN)⁻¹

If you think you can do a better job, go ahead.


edit: sleepy and making copy/paste mistakes ughh
edit#2: adding simplified case for tanks/healers

[Altena]

snip

Just throwing this out there.. Haven't read all your posts so not sure if it's mentioned..

The DF algorithm attempts to avoid matching two of the same roles together, so the chance of seeing 2x SMN, or a SMN and a BLM together (as an example, same can be said about MCH/BRD, DRG/MNK) is significantly lower then what you make it out to be.. Does it happen? Sure, from time to time.. However the likelihood of being contested in a 4-man dungeon is pretty damn slim across the board.

From my understanding, the OP's issues are mainly in 4-man content (specifically levelling and DR:Ex dungeons).. I mean if they are "farming" 8-man content for gear - there is nearly always a weekly loot lock on this content which would essentially discourage people to even lot on stuff unless they absolutely wanted it and used it for their weekly allowance....

Your idea of "Need" for every job is quite short sighted and will only escalate the problem further... That newbie who needs gear for the class they are on will no longer have exclusive rights to it - and newbies would end up getting geared up even SLOWER. I am a little surprised that all of your maths missed that pretty major point..

[Cordie]

[...]

Heard that before, but:
(a) no mention of the algorithm or even an expected bias
(b) accounting for algorithm failures (not enough people queueing, or high-load)
(c) 2 out of 7 queues (as predicted) with another BLM or SMN in a light party seems pretty close to reality in my experience (and I can't trust it is "significantly lower" without an adequate sample number and distance)


I wouldn't add an arbitrary weight there.

My "need" suggestion actually covers everyone: people who want more seals/desynths can roll on more loot with better odds, people who need items for glamours/gearing have more chances of getting them even if they're for another class, and if there is the need to adjust who gets what they can still communicate with the party as others suggested.
The chances of getting an item for gearing/glam, with 5 or 7 categories of items in the mix, are already worse than getting the highest roll out of 4 ppl.

[Altena]

My "need" suggestion actually covers everyone: people who want more seals/desynths can roll on more loot with better odds, people who need items for glamours/gearing have more chances of getting them even if they're for another class, and if there is the need to adjust who gets what they can still communicate with the party as others suggested.
The chances of getting an item for gearing/glam, with 5 or 7 categories of items in the mix, are already worse than getting the highest roll out of 4 ppl.

Eh? That makes 0 sense..

Newbie Tank, who only has a Tank (no other class to gear as they are a newbie) runs through a dungeon and the Tank body drops.
How does it benefit the newbie that is trying to gear if everyone can roll on it?

That is the whole point this thread was created. A player was complaining about high geared people getting gear that the newbie needs for upgrades.
A lot of people are saying that if they need gear for a certain class then they should play that class for the content so they can get loot priority.
At least with the current system, you can have priority on a certain class by playing that class.

Your "suggestion" effectively eliminates that option. The only people it benefits are those that are going for seals. You turn a forced greed system into a "greed in good faith" system in which case I don't trust the community for that. Do you?

The current system is fine. Eliminating the class-based Need / Greed system gives too much advantage to those that don't care what piece of gear it is because it will just be converted into seals.

[Cordie]

[...]

If anything, my proposal will change a "forced-greed" system into a "forced-need", and I see nothing wrong if it takes good faith to adjust everyone's priorities on a case-by-case basis -still have party chat for that.

As for the newbie's need for gear there is nothing special about it:

I need GC seals, and I need desynth levels.
Therefore I need the gear just as much as you do.

[Altena]

If anything, my proposal will change a "forced-greed" system into a "forced-need", and I see nothing wrong if it takes good faith to adjust everyone's priorities on a case-by-case basis -still have party chat for that.

As for the newbie's need for gear there is nothing special about it:

Not sure why you bothered quoting my other post because it doesn't help your "point".

I am perfectly fine with a newbie rolling NEED on items for gear and having loot priority.
Just like I will roll NEED on items that are specific to my class - I will play a class that gives me a higher chance of giving me the correct gear that levels my desynths.

If I want seals, I don't need loot priority as any piece of gear will suffice. I am happy to Greed with the rest of my party members.
If I want desynth, I will choose a class that gives me priority over that crafting class.
If I need to upgrade my gear, I will play the class that needs that gear.

The current system is fine. Your "suggestion" is horrible as it only benefits those that don't give a damn what they get.

[Cordie]

Not sure why you bothered quoting my other post because it doesn't help your "point".

I am perfectly fine with a newbie rolling NEED on items for gear and having loot priority.
Just like I will roll NEED on items that are specific to my class

You are (and should be) valuing both cases the same, in which case my suggestion is viable and fair.

The current system is fine. Your "suggestion" is horrible as it only benefits those that don't give a damn what they get.

Current system is quite a bit off.
My suggestion benefits those who need pieces for gearing other classes, glamours, as well as what you mention (seals/desynth) -we could even move desynth into a seperate category according to what you mention.
It's not ok to put the needs of 1 group above 2 (or 3) others.