DPS obsession in farm groups

[VeliusVire]

How are you being disrespected, you are being rewarded /as good/ as raiders for /a quarter of the effort/ over /a longer time/. You're not disrespected, you're spoilt and experiencing a tantrum, there's a difference here. Raiding is grinding as well, you spend weeks or months on a fight, that's not instant gratification so I recommend you open a dictionary before spewing nonsense. And the fact that you apparently categorise people kind of shows exactly how immature you are, clearly you're taking this /video game/ too seriously and I recommend you take a few steps back before and gauge your emotions regarding said topic properly.

[Cordie]

How are you being disrespected, you are being rewarded /as good/ as raiders for /a quarter of the effort/ over /a longer time/. You're not disrespected, you're spoilt and experiencing a tantrum, there's a difference here.

replace a "quarter of the effort" with a "quarter of the content" to be more precise. Multiply this by 8 patches in a row, and you will get that utmost respect..

Raiding is grinding as well, you spend weeks or months on a fight, that's not instant gratification so I recommend you open a dictionary before spewing nonsense.

Learning is your problem. The design is still an instant gratification one.

And when people jump into the right boxes by themselves I am too kind to get them redistributed.

[VeliusVire]

Raiders get 4 fights per 6 months, that's less than 1% of content catered to Raiders. All else is Casual/Crafting/Gathering/Literally everything else, so either you're bad at math, or you're bad at math. Your argument is making little to no sense and I think I know why: You don't like the content being implemented because it doesn't cater to you, you're probably not a skilled raider, you're probably not a end-game Crafter/Gatherer, so you're at a loss that if you're not good at anything, then the design must be flawed because you're unable to do any of these and have fun with it. Relics/Roulettes are instant-gratification because you don't even have to try to get them done, Raiding/Crafting/Gathering, you have to try, thus being a Grind of their own right, just a grind you're inept at doing. I digress, the content will not change, the playerbase enjoys it and you're just a voice that's getting drowned out because you're not even sure what you want, adieu to you.

[Cordie]

Raiders get 4 fights per 6 months ...

Grinders get 2 expert roulette dungeons. Oh wait: 2 carbon-copies of previous instances.

It's not an argument - it's an observation. A well validated one for 2 years.
I'll skip on the next part as you have seen an "argument" somewhere(?) and attempted to invalidate it too(!) with personal attacks.

If you are getting a bit too touchy with the "instant gratification", well it's not bad. I mean, yes, it may point to a certain attention-related condition which is quite widespread, but besides that there is no causative link, so don't get salty if your preferred content is actually designed around instant gratification :3

btw, the playerbase is changing too, as in enjoy-the-hacks in PvP/raids.

As for what I want I have expressed it very clearly, the problem beeing adhd raiders don't take it very well if resources are to be directed towards time-consuming grinding (hence the saltiness in some posts).

Anyways, enough with derailing the thread.

[AmeliaVerves]

instant gratification

How can savage be an instant gratification anyways when it comes to loot? ._.

I am running A9s-A11s for 4 months now every week, so its 3 runs per week, ~4 weeks a month, for 4 months = ~48 runs with loot possible.
And I got... what... about 15 pieces of loot, including upgrade items, not really instant if you ask me. q.q

[Kitfox]

...it doesn't change the fact it shows a marked disrespect towards grinders.

There's no disrespect, this game just isn't designed for the grinding kind of gameplay. The whole game design with the time gates, weeklies and dailies is catered towards people who log on for a couple of hours daily, or a few times a week. You're quite frankly in the wrong game if you're looking for something else.

I am not too keen to support a flawed and single-sided model designed to cater to the action-games audience imported to an RPG series title

Why are you playing this game again then? I would try something like Black Desert for that super-grind-itch.

[Baalfrog]

So I'd like to point a thing that hasnt been said in the thread yet. See, high raid DPS is good in farm parties, because (like many many people have said so earlier) it makes fights faster, thus more clears in same amount of time, which in turn gives more chances for that desired piece of loot. Its a positive feedback loop in a way.

The other thing that people haven't probably thought about is the safety aspect. Safety? What in the blazes are you on about? Well, let me tell you. Because high raid DPS allows skipping of mechanics, it should always be a goal, because it pretty much makes a potential threat into a non-threat. There are many, many cases, some being severe, some just being kinda there, but let me list a few. Nidhogg EX, skipping towers, potential wipe if someone screws up, Alexander 11 (both savage and normal mode) Lapis skip, again potential wipe if someone makes a mistake (more so on savage, but normal mode is also listed because it can be done, and you know, DF...), Zurvan EX and first soar (oh boy, this thing again), skip it and BAM zero risk of wipe from a mechanic that is a wipe threat. I know im talking potentials here, but laws of math say, if something can happen, it will happen, eventually. So eventually if you merrily beat your way into Zurvan EX for example, your group performs soar and you go on, you will eventually wipe to it. Groups that skip it on the other hand never have to worry about it, and can keep on piling up the high raid DPS to skip the next mechanic that is skippable and so on and so on. A11S is a treasure trove for this, you can literally skip so many things that the fight, like whirlwinds, optical sights, plasma shields and all the good stuff, all of which are potential wipes that you don't have to worry about. There is zero downside to having or wanting high raid DPS in a farm team.

On the other hand, I do not condone harrassment, even if I am an advocate of high DPS. But, if you are given constructive critisism, take it well, don't get offended by it. It takes skill to give good critisism, but it also takes skill to take it.

[MistakeNot]

There's no disrespect, this game just isn't designed for the grinding kind of gameplay. The whole game design with the time gates, weeklies and dailies is catered towards people who log on for a couple of hours daily, or a few times a week. You're quite frankly in the wrong game if you're looking for something else.

If you do all the dailies, every day, then that is a whole lot of grinding - and mind-numbingly boring after the first week or two, since you won't have time to do much else in-game.
I'd say the game is actually designed for grinding. Else there wouldn't be all these dailies/weeklies that are near-mandatory to do if you want to keep up gearwise.

[Lovescake]

Party Finders first time to actually skip mechanics. what kind of PFs did you expect when all other contet they never skipped anything

[Dzian]

If you do all the dailies, every day, then that is a whole lot of grinding - and mind-numbingly boring after the first week or two, since you won't have time to do much else in-game.
I'd say the game is actually designed for grinding. Else there wouldn't be all these dailies/weeklies that are near-mandatory to do if you want to keep up gearwise.

That's half true. but to be honest I disagree with the won't have time to do much else argument...

primarily because once you've done your expert / any other dailies you may need and got your weekly drops. there's not much else to do...

the reset was Tuesday, I ran dun scaith, got my ultima accessory and weekly item. upgraded a piece of my shire gear. and that's it I'm done for the week... (couple of experts on random days ill be capped in scripture)
today reset scrips. spent an hour capping reds and that's that done for another week...

the only thing left to do really is grind aether/lights on my relic. or maybe join a bird farm if I feel so inclined.