Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

[Feyona]

is that really that clear english is not my first language?
dxmn I have been living here for 3 years now and still XD
but it is the mentality that force someone do it make me feel sick about it


the issue is ya may be a healer not doing dmg is just a mediocre like ppl say, but it could be the healer not comfortable with dung mechanic or the party is completely strangers and the healer have no confidence on other players, e.g. the vault

No no your english is very good, Its just some of the nuences and words thats all like if you say 'forced' some people may take that literally but I see what you mean if the game changes. I agree with everything you say

[Taika]

being useful and doing the job is two different thing
doing the job simply mean meeting what you duty require
being useful is more than that
like other ppl mention, a healer do not do dmg when he/she is free is not the most efficient healer, but he/she is doing the duty of a healer would
same go for MCH or BRD, doing dmg is their duty, giving utility while doing dmg is being useful

I encourage ppl to do dmg when he/she feel comfortable, but I do not force them to do, and it should never be a sole reason to kick someone in DF

I think each party member should do their best to be as useful for their party as possible, and from what I've read, that's the whole point of the pro healer DPS argument: flat out refusing to DPS as a healer, when you would be able to, means you're refusing to be helpful to your party. I have seen SCH go /follow on tank and do absolutely nothing, and WHMs and ASTs jumping around or just standing still while the rest of their party members are actually helping the group. And when you ask them to contribute instead of being afk they reply with "lol no I'm just here to heal". This is a case of being intentionally useless to your party and forcing everyone else to contribute much more than you do (= carry you). And I think it's definitely a good enough reason for a vote kick.

But, it's another case entirely if the healer is willing and trying to contribute, but needs time to get familiar with the content and/or their job. For example, if a healer is running a leveling dungeon for the first time and is overhealing just to be safe (since they don't know the incoming damage yet) and is only casting a couple of damage spells when everything is almost dead, that's perfectly fine to me. No one here is expecting super high healer DPS numbers or healers constantly pushing themselves above their own limits, all people are asking is that healers (too!) make an effort instead of choosing to be lazy and unhelpful by using the "it's not my icon colour" excuse.

[craized]

I think each party member should do their best to be as useful for their party as possible, and from what I've read, that's the whole point of the pro healer DPS argument: flat out refusing to DPS as a healer, when you would be able to, means you're refusing to be helpful to your party.

And you don't think keeping the party alive is useful and helpful?

[Taika]

And you don't think keeping the party alive is useful and helpful?

If "keeping the party alive" means either not doing anything (the /follow SCH) or performing 1-2 actions every minute or so (the required level of healing for most content), then no, you're not being useful or helpful (or anywhere near as useful and helpful as you could be, to be precise).

Back when it was in Expert, I did a test run on Xelphathol with WHM, only healing. I was active 17% of the dungeon run, which means I was completely useless for over 80% of it. And even with this, my overhealing was 36%... (details and video link here) That's how little you're required to do to be "keeping the party alive". On the same run, all my other party members were actually working to help the group for over 70% of the time. And that's the whole point of this.

[Feyona]

Feyona, I have seen you post several times that you DPS in your downtime when it's safe

Ive not explained well. I dont like dpsing but do it To help the team, To practice or whatever and I have experienced every type of content. From my view only the low content can be managed, by those of skill level like me. In savage I felt an enourmous amount of stress and pressre to perform at that level, savage can be viewed as hi performance anyway,to do what I consider two roles with double skill set is harder ofc. You see the comments here and their attitude but its like give me my choice back please cos Im doing as much as I can but I got no space. I feel some people would like to not be excuded in content because of it Adding to it all. Role confusion, pressure, anxiety,exclusion. Not wanting to be dramatic tho. Dps not doing their jobs expecting you to do two. Plus its just an added pressure. I dont believe its essential either as some say, its abonus.

[Ghishlain]

*Rubs temples* I hate to say it but I'm looking forward to the day S-E disables Cleric Stance inside 4-man and 8-man duties so they can muzzle these sorts of discussion.

[bounddreamer]

1. Im a scholar, and scholars are better healers than dps,

Sorry, what?

Uh...no?

Scholars are excellent support healers. They're great mitigating damage with their shields. But as far as burst and sustained heals are concerned, no. The healing power that SCH brings to the table doesn't outweigh their value as an off healer who is micromanaging their fairy, keeping up their dots in cleric stance, and deploying shields and indoms at crucial moments of the fight. So, sorry, if you're a scholar who is healing for most of the fight and letting your WHM or AST do most of the damage, you're doing it wrong. At the very least the dps and healing should be shared more equally.

2. Dps/healers isnt something everyone can do in high content but is being forced.

One would argue that healers aren't entitled to clears of high level content if they're not going to contribute to their group in the way the current meta expects. I have my own particular resentment toward healers expecting carries here because I've been in parties with healers who clearly didn't know how to play their job properly at endgame. Some were bad enough I left the group or blacklisted.

"Is expected by a group doing endgame content that requires high skill" is NOT the same thing as being forced. You don't have to do savage. You don't have to do extremes before echo and everyone is so outgeared it's a joke. But if you want to, you have to be ready to meet the collective demands of the group.

[craized]

One would argue that healers aren't entitled to clears of high level content if they're not going to contribute to their group in the way the current meta expects.

One would argue without healing there would be no clears, irrespective of what the "current meta" expects.

[bounddreamer]

One would argue without healing there would be no clears, irrespective of what the "current meta" expects.

Not the point I'm arguing, dude.

[dotsforlife]

I wouldn't kick someone over "only" healing, but you you will be viewed in a negative manner because of it. Not using all the abilities at your disposal is just laziness in my eyes. If you intentionally choose to be less efficient because you "don't want to" then that's laziness, plain and simple. Not only does that style of play hinder the TEAM as a whole but it's also selfish. Playing as a healer role does not equal use only healing skills. It means your PRIMARY role is to heal, but not ONLY that. Again, you can play as you please, but don't expect others to be okay with it.

As for stress in end game content for some people, that's perfectly understandable. If that is indeed an issue for you then I suggest you only play with people you are familiar with should you attempt end game content. Raiding is hard enough for the casual majority of this game, even more so when a random player queues up with a pug group and doesn't use a good chunk of their abilities available to them.