Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

[bounddreamer]

1. Im a scholar, and scholars are better healers than dps,

Sorry, what?

Uh...no?

Scholars are excellent support healers. They're great mitigating damage with their shields. But as far as burst and sustained heals are concerned, no. The healing power that SCH brings to the table doesn't outweigh their value as an off healer who is micromanaging their fairy, keeping up their dots in cleric stance, and deploying shields and indoms at crucial moments of the fight. So, sorry, if you're a scholar who is healing for most of the fight and letting your WHM or AST do most of the damage, you're doing it wrong. At the very least the dps and healing should be shared more equally.

2. Dps/healers isnt something everyone can do in high content but is being forced.

One would argue that healers aren't entitled to clears of high level content if they're not going to contribute to their group in the way the current meta expects. I have my own particular resentment toward healers expecting carries here because I've been in parties with healers who clearly didn't know how to play their job properly at endgame. Some were bad enough I left the group or blacklisted.

"Is expected by a group doing endgame content that requires high skill" is NOT the same thing as being forced. You don't have to do savage. You don't have to do extremes before echo and everyone is so outgeared it's a joke. But if you want to, you have to be ready to meet the collective demands of the group.

[Feyona]

Sorry, what?

Uh...no?



One would argue that healers aren't entitled to clears of high level content if they're not going to contribute to their group in the way the current meta expects. I have my own particular resentment toward healers.

"Is expected by a group doing endgame content that requires high skill" is NOT the same thing as being forced. You don't have to do savage. You don't have to do extremes before echo and everyone is so outgeared it's a joke. But if you want to, you have to be ready to meet the collective demands of the group.

Really? Im a healer so I should be excluded if I dont or cant dps? That is morally wrong. Especially as said before that healer dps is not an absolute requirement Hill skill yes but not doubling up on two classes no other class has around 36 skills they have to use. And I also have to state that scholar does have the heaing requirements necessary. Have to remind people here that sch mained a12s. Agai personal preference and your view is very biased towards sch being OH

[IttyBitty]

Really? Im a healer so I should be excluded if I dont or cant dps? That is morally wrong. Especially as said before that healer dps is not an absolute requirement Hill skill yes but not doubling up on two classes no other class has around 36 skills they have to use. And I also have to state that scholar does have the heaing requirements necessary

Yes, you should be excluded if you don't or "can't" DPS. Everybody else is using around 95% of their GCDs in an encounter. You're using around 20% if you don't DPS. They're working almost 5 times harder than you are! What makes you so special to think this is okay?

Also, every class has around the same number of skills. There's nothing special about a healer's toolkit. Have you even looked at optimal DPS class rotations? How complex they can be? I really don't think you have. SMN's optimal openers, for example, have always been a ridiculous feat to pull off effectively.

[craized]

Yes, you should be excluded if you don't or "can't" DPS. Everybody else is using around 95% of their GCDs in an encounter. You're using around 20% if you don't DPS. They're working almost 5 times harder than you are! What makes you so special to think this is okay?

Also, every class has around the same number of skills. There's nothing special about a healer's toolkit. Have you even looked at optimal DPS class rotations? How complex they can be? I really don't think you have. SMN's optimal openers, for example, have always been a ridiculous feat to pull off effectively.

there is nothing hard about pressing buttons, being situationally aware is much more taxing and that's what a healers main task involves. and btw the summoner open is a piece of piss. there is nothing difficult about it other than learning the rotation.

[Feyona]

Yes, you should be excluded if you don't or "can't" DPS. Everybody else is using around 95% of their GCDs in an encounter. You're using around 20% if you don't DPS. They're working almost 5 times harder than you are! What makes you so special to think this is okay?

Also, every class has around the same number of skills. There's nothing special about a healer's toolkit. Have you even looked at optimal DPS class rotations? How complex they can be? I really don't think you have. SMN's optimal openers, for example, have always been a ridiculous feat to pull off effectively.

Soooo this is a game that wants a reputation for excluding a large proportion of players from its content does it? In that statement right there is elitism. I could think of more words to describe that type of behaviour too. 20% where does that come from If Im healing for around 5000 hps, I can assure you Im using my skills 100% for almost 100% active time. Any way If you find the requirements for healing shoots up cos of your complaints about healers got nothing to do dont complain you cant heal it cos your more used to dps

[bounddreamer]

Soooo this is a game that wants a reputation for excluding a large proportion of players from its content does it? In that statement right there is elitism. I could think of more words to describe that type of behaviour too.

You were talking about endgame, savage and extreme content. Now you're shifting to a more broadly applied, general statement.

Stop trying to have it both ways and willfully misunderstanding what people are saying.

[Feyona]

You were talking about endgame, savage and extreme content. Now you're shifting to a more broadly applied, general statement.

Stop trying to have it both ways and willfully misunderstanding what people are saying.

oh no was still talking about savage. Some just jump to wrong conclusions sometimes about what I mean, Its not always their fault though, it maybe cos I dont explain everything I think particularly on here sometime people are looking for ways to misunderstand, not necessarily saying you have but its there

[IttyBitty]

Soooo this is a game that wants a reputation for excluding a large proportion of players from its content does it? In that statement right there is elitism. I could think of more words to describe that type of behaviour too.

If me not wanting to party up with someone putting in 1/5th of the observable effort of the rest of the party makes me elitist, then by golly, I'll wear that title with distinction.

I'm sure you would take umbrage with a DPS or tank player using one action every 12.5 seconds and not AAing. Why should a healer effectively doing the same be treated any differently?

[bounddreamer]

Really? Im a healer so I should be excluded if I dont or cant dps? That is morally wrong. Especially as said before that healer dps is not an absolute requirement Hill skill yes but not doubling up on two classes no other class has around 36 skills they have to use. And I also have to state that scholar does have the heaing requirements necessary

Again, it's situational. If we're in duty finder and there's a lot of downtime and I notice you not dpsing, I'll just switch to cleric stance myself and do it, while commenting to my FC that I found a SCH who seems allergic to dpsing.

If we are in a party finder group for something like, say, Zurvan, and I notice you standing around, I may ask you to dps more, or I may do it myself. If you won't dps or you struggle to keep up heals while I add dps during healing light parts of the fight, I'll leave the group and blacklist you.

If you were in my static and refused to dps, I guarantee my group would boot you. Balanced heals and dps - fine. Focusing heals and standing idle - not fine.

"Morally wrong" doesn't apply here, but the indignant use of the term certainly adds flavor to the salt.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Really? Im a healer so I should be excluded if I dont or cant dps? That is morally wrong. Especially as said before that healer dps is not an absolute requirement Hill skill yes but not doubling up on two classes no other class has around 36 skills they have to use. And I also have to state that scholar does have the heaing requirements necessary. Have to remind people here that sch mained a12s. Agai personal preference and your view is very biased towards sch being OH

Depends on the setting. In dungeons, I may or may not care depending on how it is influencing the run. If you jump around though, I'll issue a vote dismissal instantly or simply stand in everything. It's extremely irksome to me when healers not only refuse to DPS but draw attention to the fact they're literally contributing so little they have time to jump around the map.

In a farm party, I'll be more inclined to leave if I see low healer DPS. I want to clear Zurvan because I'm there for a bird and it will likely take 100+ attempts. Your lack of damage makes clearing content less efficient. In a farm party, all I care about is efficiency. It's one thing not to have the job meta since the damage difference isn't a big deal but to have a healer(s) not DPS can be upwards of 1,000+ DPS just thrown away.

For Savage. I will simply not raid with any healer who refuses to DPS on a serious level. Newer raiders? Absolutely. I didn't turn off Grit once when I first stepped in after switching from Dragoon. I do not expect new raiders to play at a optimal level since they are learning. I'm only there to help them along. When I'm raiding with a static, we're there to clear fights each week and improve.

There is no morality here. You aren't entitled to clears simply because you want to play a certain way. If you happen to find a casual group willing to accept it, good for you. But to complain the vast majority won't isn't anyone's fault except your own. Savage is meant to push your knowledge of the job you play. Many a times people corrected my rotation when I was first stepping in to directly improve my performance. I expect the same from everyone not just healers.

What you don't get is, healers don't have any more valid playstyle options than any other job in the game. If a DRG (or literally any other job than a healer) would start a similar discussion about feeling too stressed about having to use their full rotation and all buffs, especially in the difficult content like Savage, and wishing to choose to use only half of their abilities instead because of that, absolutely no one would support that. But for some weird reason some people think we should accept that for healers - and healers only.

Savage content can be stressful and it requires a lot from everyone, we all understand that. It's also not for everyone exactly because of that.

I just want to touch on this being a DRG main. Do you know how much I cry over Blood of the Dragon because Cruise Chaser decided to jump a little early or Geirskogul didn't go off before phase transition. My raid group even jokes about it because they know the exact moment and occasionally tease me about it (so cruel). That doesn't I stop using BotD. I either adapt to the phase pushes if they're consistent enough or I suck it up and wait until it's up again and cry over my lost DPS loss.