Kicked from DR Leveling because I don't slot Protect for low level dungeons?

[Hayward]

The only people who argue that Protect should be prioritized at all in the lowest level dungeons are people who have no idea about how little it actually does. As a Scholar especially, I literally do not even need to heal those dungeons. If they wanna start up a fight because they can't do math, they don't deserve a clear.

I will never succumb to peer pressure, and if they want to kick me, that's fine, they can wait for another healer who might not even know how to play.

Let me guess: You're probably one of those healers who don't have Swiftcast slotted and think raising is for SMNs (Hint: SMN doesn't get that skill natively, either).

This trend of "offense at all costs" really has gone past all reasonable limits.

[Saito_S]

From purely numerical point of view, yes I suppose. but the low level dungeons (talking sub-50) are the tutorial content in the game. Yoshi has said as much several times now. So you're supposed to be learning your job/role there.

Firstly, this is about the starter dungeons only. Satasha, Tam-Tara, and Copperbell. This whole disucssion is moot after them because A) you can cross-class more than one skill, and B) those three dungeons are the only ones where Protect makes THIS little difference. By saying "sub-50" dungeons, you are going way beyond what I (and I think most in this thread advocating a similar position) would intend to include in this discussion. No one is going to say that casting Protect in Stone Vigil is useless, or that it wouldn't be weird for a healer to just refuse to cross-class it in favor of something else at that level.

Secondly, I'm not sure I see what "you're supposed to be learning your role/job there" has to do with this discussion in the first place.

Protect is but one tool among those that healers can use to protect the group. How you choose to roll is your business, but others may want/expect a healer to cast a proactive defensive buff before moving. I see no issue with that at all - especially given the macro that Miste posted.

I don't see a problem with asking for it. I see a problem with DEMANDING it, calling people who don't want to use it lazy and etc. Some people will cast it and some people won't, and it's fine either way.

I'm by no means saying healers shouldn't use cleric stance or contribute, but I have to admit I really dislike the tendency among some veteran players to completely dismiss certain skills and content because they have moved 'beyond' that stage.

I don't really see that happening here, though. Protect isn't being dismissed as something not worth doing in general, ever; certainly it should still be used in higher-level content and I don't think anyone is disputing that. But IN those three dungeons, it makes basically no difference. Since you can only choose one cross-class skill, some people leave it behind. I can't speak for anyone else, but my main point has been that doing so is objectively fine, and not deserving of any level of hostility, demands to switch CS for Protect, accusations of laziness or incompetence, etc. And neither is the reverse, really.

Let me guess: You're probably one of those healers who don't have Swiftcast slotted and think raising is for SMNs (Hint: SMN doesn't get that skill natively, either).

This trend of "offense at all costs" really has gone past all reasonable limits.

This is a nonsensical post that contributes nothing to the discussion, doesn't come near the actual arguments being made in favor of not casting Protect in the starters, and demonstrates that you have read very little of the thread.

[Hayward]

I'll make sense of it for you: There seems to be a disturbing trend among healers toward shirking support duties and looking for offense at any cost. I myself have noticed fewer healers using Swiftcast in tandem with Raise/Ressurect, which tells me they're not slotting the ability as regularly as one would expect.

[Miste]

I'll make sense of it for you: There seems to be a disturbing trend among healers toward shirking support duties and looking for offense at any cost. I myself have noticed fewer healers using Swiftcast in tandem with Raise/Ressurect, which tells me they're not slotting the ability as regularly as one would expect.

In which content have you noticed this trend?

[Hayward]

In which content have you noticed this trend?

I've noticed this most glaringly in Dun Scaith. To my mind, SMNs seem more likely to use Swiftcast+Resurrect in these raids than WHMs/SCHs, which is bothersome.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I've noticed this most glaringly in Dun Scaith. To my mind, SMNs seem more likely to use Swiftcast+Resurrect in these raids than WHMs/SCHs, which is bothersome.

More likely that it was down after using it on a previous party members death.

[Miste]

I've noticed this most glaringly in Dun Scaith. To my mind, SMNs seem more likely to use Swiftcast+Resurrect in these raids than WHMs/SCHs, which is bothersome.

Having healed Dun Scaith and also done it often on other jobs; Dun Scaith isn't a good place to determine if healers are slotting the proper cross class skills or not.

Having to raise so very often because of massive deaths makes it so Swiftcast is only up for some of the raises and other times you end up having to hard cast it. Not to mention you are more likely to notice a hard casted raise than a Swiftcast + Raise since one takes a long time to cast and the other is instant (and has no cast bar) and you'd have to be watching the healer/party list closely to see it (sometimes buffs get truncated by the party list as well if there are too many so a healer might use Swiftcast and you might not even see it)

Personally I am so quick with Swiftcast + Raise you would only have half a second to see the buff before I expire it since I already used the Raise on someone.

If a healer is not cross classing Swiftcast at 60 in one of the 5 slots available then their play style is the main issue. It is incorrect for a healer to not have Swiftcast in one of the slots at 60. So it is kind of like blaming experienced healers for other healers being inexperienced...it isn't my fault if another healer does not research their role to find out what is best at 60 and no one here is advocating to not cross class Swiftcast in one of the later slots so this doesn't have much to do with this topic or what most of us are discussing.

[Saito_S]

I'll make sense of it for you: There seems to be a disturbing trend among healers toward shirking support duties and looking for offense at any cost. I myself have noticed fewer healers using Swiftcast in tandem with Raise/Ressurect, which tells me they're not slotting the ability as regularly as one would expect.

Okay. I certainly haven't noticed such a trend. I haven't seen any kind of uptick nor downtick in the amount of healers that cast swift+res.

In any case, it still has very little to do with the subject of this thread. At best, it sort of ties into people saying they want to ditch Protect in the starter dungeons to use CS, but since Protect doesn't do anything worthwhile in the starter dungeons, it's not a big deal. Certainly not worth dropping into a thread and randomly insinuating that someone else thinks "rezzing is for Summoners!"

At worst, it's a random drive-by from someone who hasn't kept up with the discussion and wants to aggressively frame it so it fits into the whole "healers shouldn't DPS!" narrative.

EDIT:

Swapping out a gcd action for a nongcd action doesn't incur a penalty. Swapping a nongcd for a gcd does.

Some people... so, if you refuse to use clerics, is it fine for me to not use Huton? After all, it's SUUUUUUCH a pain to keep up and it clearly doesn't do anything. /s

Do your job first and foremost, don't shirk it cause you don't wanna click one extra button.

The post of mine that you are quoting was from like 5 pages ago. The fact that you CAN swap without having to wait for the long cooldown was brought up and acknowledged (including by myself) a while ago.

As for the rest... not sure who you are trying to call out, exactly, but the comparison is silly. Huton is absolutely CRITICAL to a NIN's DPS output. Having Protect (or Cleric's) in the three starter dungeons is... just about the opposite of "critical".

[Hayward]

-snip-

The subject at hand, as far as I'm concerned, is rather negligible and I couldn't care about it either way. The reasoning behind it, though, is something that should disturb players who expect new players to learn the basics of the game. That includes mitigation of damage however possible (Protect), repairing damage when necessary (Cure/Physick/Benefic), and assisting in damage when possible.

[Saito_S]

The subject at hand, as far as I'm concerned, is rather negligible and I couldn't care about it either way. The reasoning behind it, though, is something that should disturb players who expect new players to learn the basics of the game. That includes mitigation of damage however possible (Protect), repairing damage when necessary (Cure/Physick/Benefic), and assisting in damage when possible.

O...kay. No one is saying anything "disturbing" regarding how new players will learn the basics of the game. No one is saying anything that really has much to do with new players learning the game at all. The subject at hand IS negligible, which was sort of the point myself and several others have been attempting to make. Not sure why you felt it necessary to post in a thread about that subject just to make sweeping generalizations on a tangentially related subject. Obviously mitigation and keeping the party alive are, always, the top priorities of healers. Nothing to disagree with that concept has been suggested.

Correction: Huton is critical for a NIN to do their main job(killing all the things) effectively.

So... what I said, phrased differently. Very compelling reason to put "correction", you sure offered a totally new spin on the description of Huton's role.

Protect is critical for a healer to do their main job(supporting and keeping their party healthy) effectively. If you want to sacrifice your own role efficiency for the sake of 'muh deeps', it's not unreasonable to expect someone that is actually doing their best to perform their main role first and foremost to be peeved over laziness. Why should I perform optimally if you won't?(General you)

Because Protect in Satasha isn't critical to anything, and leaving it behind to cross-class Cleric's instead isn't laziness. It's a choice, and a pretty inconsequential one.