Kicked from DR Leveling because I don't slot Protect for low level dungeons?

[TaranTatsuuchi]

OK, obviously Cleric Stance increases healer DPS, but describing a passive Physical and magical defence buff that's approximately a 10% buff is hardly a placebo.

Essentially it's a 30 minute long free defensive buff how is that a placebo?

Personally on my PLD, I'll be slotting Protect and StoneSkin in the same slot and using a macro to switch them out so I have SS during action and can cast Protect if the healer can/does not do it.



From purely numerical point of view, yes I suppose. but the low level dungeons (talking sub-50) are the tutorial content in the game. Yoshi has said as much several times now. So you're supposed to be learning your job/role there.

Protect is but one tool among those that healers can use to protect the group. How you choose to roll is your business, but others may want/expect a healer to cast a proactive defensive buff before moving. I see no issue with that at all - especially given the macro that Miste posted. I'm by no means saying healers shouldn't use cleric stance or contribute, but I have to admit I really dislike the tendency among some veteran players to completely dismiss certain skills and content because they have moved 'beyond' that stage.

I do believe it is not a buff to damage resistance...

It instead buffs the amount of defense the characters have.
So it is not a "You take x% less damage".

It's a "Increases your defense stats by x%"
Which is significantly less effective.

[Cylestea]

In all honesty, as a SCH especially which is the OP'S case, it's just much more efficient for those that want to slot Cleric first to be a viable option. Lower level dungeons don't hit as hard, plus you have a automatic healing bot that pretty much won't ever let your tank see less than 50%. The less enemies that are hitting your tank, the less damage your tank is taking, so why not?

Plus, it not a bad habit when it's ONLY the first three dungeons that it's possible to do this.

LIES i seen the healer MANY TIMES let me drop down to around 10% by refusing prot over c stance and letting a fairy heal before they heal me I rather a defesive boost over a healers small damage boost you get below lvl 20. really doing 3-5 dps more isnt worth almost killing your tank

[Hayward]

The only people who argue that Protect should be prioritized at all in the lowest level dungeons are people who have no idea about how little it actually does. As a Scholar especially, I literally do not even need to heal those dungeons. If they wanna start up a fight because they can't do math, they don't deserve a clear.

I will never succumb to peer pressure, and if they want to kick me, that's fine, they can wait for another healer who might not even know how to play.

Let me guess: You're probably one of those healers who don't have Swiftcast slotted and think raising is for SMNs (Hint: SMN doesn't get that skill natively, either).

This trend of "offense at all costs" really has gone past all reasonable limits.

[Saito_S]

From purely numerical point of view, yes I suppose. but the low level dungeons (talking sub-50) are the tutorial content in the game. Yoshi has said as much several times now. So you're supposed to be learning your job/role there.

Firstly, this is about the starter dungeons only. Satasha, Tam-Tara, and Copperbell. This whole disucssion is moot after them because A) you can cross-class more than one skill, and B) those three dungeons are the only ones where Protect makes THIS little difference. By saying "sub-50" dungeons, you are going way beyond what I (and I think most in this thread advocating a similar position) would intend to include in this discussion. No one is going to say that casting Protect in Stone Vigil is useless, or that it wouldn't be weird for a healer to just refuse to cross-class it in favor of something else at that level.

Secondly, I'm not sure I see what "you're supposed to be learning your role/job there" has to do with this discussion in the first place.

Protect is but one tool among those that healers can use to protect the group. How you choose to roll is your business, but others may want/expect a healer to cast a proactive defensive buff before moving. I see no issue with that at all - especially given the macro that Miste posted.

I don't see a problem with asking for it. I see a problem with DEMANDING it, calling people who don't want to use it lazy and etc. Some people will cast it and some people won't, and it's fine either way.

I'm by no means saying healers shouldn't use cleric stance or contribute, but I have to admit I really dislike the tendency among some veteran players to completely dismiss certain skills and content because they have moved 'beyond' that stage.

I don't really see that happening here, though. Protect isn't being dismissed as something not worth doing in general, ever; certainly it should still be used in higher-level content and I don't think anyone is disputing that. But IN those three dungeons, it makes basically no difference. Since you can only choose one cross-class skill, some people leave it behind. I can't speak for anyone else, but my main point has been that doing so is objectively fine, and not deserving of any level of hostility, demands to switch CS for Protect, accusations of laziness or incompetence, etc. And neither is the reverse, really.

Let me guess: You're probably one of those healers who don't have Swiftcast slotted and think raising is for SMNs (Hint: SMN doesn't get that skill natively, either).

This trend of "offense at all costs" really has gone past all reasonable limits.

This is a nonsensical post that contributes nothing to the discussion, doesn't come near the actual arguments being made in favor of not casting Protect in the starters, and demonstrates that you have read very little of the thread.

[Hayward]

I'll make sense of it for you: There seems to be a disturbing trend among healers toward shirking support duties and looking for offense at any cost. I myself have noticed fewer healers using Swiftcast in tandem with Raise/Ressurect, which tells me they're not slotting the ability as regularly as one would expect.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

If you cast Protect, then switch out for Cleric's Stance... you have to stand around for a minute...

Swapping out a gcd action for a nongcd action doesn't incur a penalty. Swapping a nongcd for a gcd does.

Some people... so, if you refuse to use clerics, is it fine for me to not use Huton? After all, it's SUUUUUUCH a pain to keep up and it clearly doesn't do anything. /s

Do your job first and foremost, don't shirk it cause you don't wanna click one extra button.

[Miste]

I'll make sense of it for you: There seems to be a disturbing trend among healers toward shirking support duties and looking for offense at any cost. I myself have noticed fewer healers using Swiftcast in tandem with Raise/Ressurect, which tells me they're not slotting the ability as regularly as one would expect.

In which content have you noticed this trend?

[Dragon_Sanders]

Oh they shouldn't kick you for that small thing but I'll die without Protect because of obsessive-compulsive disorder.

[Saito_S]

I'll make sense of it for you: There seems to be a disturbing trend among healers toward shirking support duties and looking for offense at any cost. I myself have noticed fewer healers using Swiftcast in tandem with Raise/Ressurect, which tells me they're not slotting the ability as regularly as one would expect.

Okay. I certainly haven't noticed such a trend. I haven't seen any kind of uptick nor downtick in the amount of healers that cast swift+res.

In any case, it still has very little to do with the subject of this thread. At best, it sort of ties into people saying they want to ditch Protect in the starter dungeons to use CS, but since Protect doesn't do anything worthwhile in the starter dungeons, it's not a big deal. Certainly not worth dropping into a thread and randomly insinuating that someone else thinks "rezzing is for Summoners!"

At worst, it's a random drive-by from someone who hasn't kept up with the discussion and wants to aggressively frame it so it fits into the whole "healers shouldn't DPS!" narrative.

EDIT:

Swapping out a gcd action for a nongcd action doesn't incur a penalty. Swapping a nongcd for a gcd does.

Some people... so, if you refuse to use clerics, is it fine for me to not use Huton? After all, it's SUUUUUUCH a pain to keep up and it clearly doesn't do anything. /s

Do your job first and foremost, don't shirk it cause you don't wanna click one extra button.

The post of mine that you are quoting was from like 5 pages ago. The fact that you CAN swap without having to wait for the long cooldown was brought up and acknowledged (including by myself) a while ago.

As for the rest... not sure who you are trying to call out, exactly, but the comparison is silly. Huton is absolutely CRITICAL to a NIN's DPS output. Having Protect (or Cleric's) in the three starter dungeons is... just about the opposite of "critical".

[Hayward]

In which content have you noticed this trend?

I've noticed this most glaringly in Dun Scaith. To my mind, SMNs seem more likely to use Swiftcast+Resurrect in these raids than WHMs/SCHs, which is bothersome.