Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

People that say that healers should be kicked if they DPS too much and cause a wipe, you aren't helping at all for the cause. Mistakes happen, and sometimes you miscalculate. Nobody complains when you do a mistake with your DPS rotation so don't complain when a healer fucks up because of mistakes. How are they going to learn if they don't experience mistakes. (As you can see my english level is great /s)

A healer intentionally wiping the group to get out one more dps cast wastes 6+ minutes. A dps or tank making a mistake at most wastes 5-6 seconds. Not really comparable.

[Gemina]

Sorry but that what separates a average/good healer from a bad one they can keep the party alive while DPSing and managing OGCD and have no worry that they will cause a wipe, fights in this game are very predictable and once you have ran them a couple of times you know when damage is coming and know when you can DPS freely.

If you've ran a fight/dungeon several times, the mechanics are no longer predictable, but are rather known/memorized. This is much different than predicting incoming damage as a healer. Secondly, even if a healer is good at predicting incoming damage, if their tank's actions remain unpredictable not only is it more difficult to synergize with them, it also makes finding windows to DPS harder as well.

For example a good healer will use benediction as a normal OGCD to DPS freely without having to switch out of clerics and a bad one will hold it potentially the entire fight/dungeon because they were holding in cause someone messes up.

This hardly defines a good healer from a bad one. A good healer will know when it's optimal to use it, and when it is best to hold on to it. Using bene to remain in Cleric stance is entirely dependent on the group, particularly the tank. There could be several valid reasons why to hang on to bene such as the example I provided in the above statement, so it's not a simple black and white scenario with this ability. However, the way a healer uses Bene is a good indication of their mentality.

[Amirya]

FFS.

Healers can - and should - dps. As long as no one is in imminent danger of dying. No one needs to stay at 100% hp for 100% of the time. Even if they're tossing out an Aero/Combust/Bio. Do something other than eagerly anticipating the next blow that drops the tank's health to 98%.

No one is saying that healers need to be carrying the whole group by keeping everyone at 100% hp for 100% of the time while doing 5500 dps and eating all the tankbusters solo while maintaining full threat.

[Rita1989]

This is much different than predicting incoming damage as a healer. Secondly, even if a healer is good at predicting incoming damage, if their tank's actions remain unpredictable not only is it more difficult to synergize with them, it also makes finding windows to DPS harder as well.

There could be several valid reasons why to hang on to bene such as the example I provided in the above statement, so it's not a simple black and white scenario with this ability. However, the way a healer uses Bene is a good indication of their mentality.

Again once your comfortable with healer you can usually figure out the skill level of your tank within a couple minutes of the fight and you still can dps but just a bit less then you would with a good tank unless they literally cant hate. Although I have dps in dungeons and I was pulling hate with holy and its still pretty easy to keep your self alive because enemy's hit for so little damage.

The only reasonable excuse to hold onto Benediction is your learning a fight and almost positive your going to need to use it otherwise its a waste of your best healing OGCD.

[Saito_S]

I rather them not DPS and compelte the duty with no wipes than them try to DPS and mess and cause a wipe which makes the duty longer. Healers should not be doing DPS they should be concentrating on keeping everyone alive.

Since you've posted a couple times in this thread, and consistently been ardently anti-healer-DPS, you are precisely the kind of healer I would love to get an answer from on the question that has yet to be truly answered.

What in the name of mighty Leviathan do you do with all that downtime?

[AlphaFox]

Since you've posted a couple times in this thread, and consistently been ardently anti-healer-DPS, you are precisely the kind of healer I would love to get an answer from on the question that has yet to be truly answered.

What in the name of mighty Leviathan do you do with all that downtime?

Jump around and dance? All I ever see the healers do when they could be DPSing and it honestly drives me insane, usually leading to kicking if I know someone can replace em.

[Bixillarla]

Since you've posted a couple times in this thread, and consistently been ardently anti-healer-DPS, you are precisely the kind of healer I would love to get an answer from on the question that has yet to be truly answered.

What in the name of mighty Leviathan do you do with all that downtime?

I keep sheilds and buffs up depending on which healer job I am on and keep an eye on the health and heal when needed, what a healer is suppose to do.

[AsahinaMyLove]

So much dramas about something thats NOT to be expect from a healer<,<

One of the reason I play as healer is: Im healing and nothing else! Some people may had a hard day on there job and want to relax!
Im Queing up in Duty Finder as Healer, not as DPS-Healer!
Im no 24/7 Hardcore gamer! If some people can dps and healing, fine, its THERE gameplay not mine o_O

SE should just lock Cleric Stance in synched dungeons/raids etc..
- done with those "complains"
- done with those unjustified Vote-kicks, because some people want a run a few mins faster
- done with dramas about it!

[TaranTatsuuchi]

I keep sheilds and buffs up depending on which healer job I am on and keep an eye on the health and heal when needed, what a healer is suppose to do.

So much dramas about something thats NOT to be expect from a healer<,<

One of the reason I play as healer is: Im healing and nothing else! Some people may had a hard day on there job and want to relax!
Im Queing up in Duty Finder as Healer, not as DPS-Healer!
Im no 24/7 Hardcore gamer! If some people can dps and healing, fine, its THERE gameplay not mine o_O

SE should just lock Cleric Stance in synched dungeons/raids etc..
- done with those "complains"
- done with those unjustified Vote-kicks, because some people want a run a few mins faster
- done with dramas about it!

I think the biggest point in this thread is this.

If no one currently needs healing, and your GCD has come up, you should be pressing a button.
Always Be Casting.

If there is no more need for support at the time your GCD comes up, then there's nothing else to do but to do damage...


And someone did a test on this at one point...

Yesterday I did some testing on how it really is like to only heal in expert roulette, which I think is a good example because it's content probably ran by majority of player base this discussion is relevant to.

I queued to expert roulette as WHM and we got Xelpathol. In addition to me, the party consisted of a WAR who had never tanked the dungeon before (no endgame experience as WAR), a BLM (his Savage job, currently on A11S progression), and a DRG (no endgame experience as DRG). So quite a random party composition with people more or less familiar with their roles in that dungeon.

The WAR pulled as much as he could at the time (not knowing the dungeon as tank he failed this a couple of times) and I would only use my healing abilities. This was the result, my every single heal cast for the whole 21 min dungeon run:

- Regen x24
- Medica II x16
- Asylum x7
- Assize x4
- Cure II x5 (between pulls, not during them)
- Tetra x4

So in addition to Medica II, the only thing I actually had to cast in the whole dungeon was Cure II, which I did a total of 5 times (between pulls, not during them). Everything else was instant cast abilities. I also used Eye for an Eye on tank and sometimes Esuna, and I cast stoneskin on everyone between pulls.

Even with this little use of healing, my overheal was 35,9%, so the actual healing requirements for this dungeon are even lower. I was active 17% of the whole dungeon while the rest of my group members were active 72-77% of the dungeon.

This is a perfect example of the low healing requirements in the game and how it causes a huge activity difference between a healer who doesn't DPS and their group members. On that run I did not contribute nearly as much as my group members, in fact I was using /icam and doing /mandervilledance while they were actually making an effort. If it would have been the tank or a DD only being active 17% of the time and dancing and idling for the rest, they would have been removed from the party, but for me, some people would actually argue I was doing just fine.

I took a video of the whole run and uploaded it in case someone's interested. This is the final boss fight, during which the only things I actually cast were 3 Medica IIs. Other than that, I used Regen (4), Assize (2) and Asylum (2). Here's the direct link to the fight: https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=17m17s

TLDR: Not DPSing as a healer means you're just being carried by your group members for over 80% of the dungeon time.

[Yasuhiro]

-Conjurer/White Mage Job quests have this whole story line that it's okay to be doing damage to enemy monsters if your party is healed enough
-Some players still insist that you're NOT supposed to be doing damage at all even though the game keeps giving you abilities like Assisze, Aeroga, Stonega and freaking HOLY a crowd control skill.

Really blows up my Alderanns