Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[Saito_S]

This seems like an odd thing for you to say. You didn't strike me as the type of person who's black or white. You make it sound like there's a cap on group damage that if healers are contributing with DPS then suddenly DPS are having their individual potential diminished and aren't allowed to DPS further.

We both know that's not the case then, so why would you speak of absurdities? Healers CAN (And do) DPS to go beyond "Good enough" to better. Nobody goes into a dungeon and says "Wow am I glad this AST used Gravity 2 times, brb in 10 minutes."

Thunda's posts have all been about how if healers are DPS'ing, then they must be doing a terrible job of actually healing, therefore healers shouldn't be encouraged generally, let alone asked directly, to DPS. Going so far as using "if a healer intentionally wipes their group to squeeze out some more DPS, that's terrible!" as if it were some kind of argument against the pro-healer-DPS crowd. Like ANYONE in said crowd, in this thread or just in general, actually would consider it acceptable play to DPS so hard as a healer that you wipe your team. lol

Supposedly this experience - of healers getting so caught up in DPS DPS HOLY SPAM RAAAAGH that they straight-up forget to heal and people start dying - is something they encounter all the time, a claim which I am quite skeptical of.

So with all that said, this weird assertion that suddenly, healer DPS is all about actual DPS being lazy and it being "easier to ask someone else to do it" - while absurd - doesn't surprise me.

[DPZ2]

I'll ask again. Why should a healer move into Cleric Stance in order to DPS in a dungeon instance? (We know the answer to that in the MSQ: "So we can complete the story line, duh."

We already know healer DPS is not considered from a dungeon design point-of-view.

I suspect that a few healers would even be encouraged to cast DPS if they don't have to worry about being called out for "not being in Cleric Stance".

[Taika]

I said it before and i will say it again, if a DPS ask a healer to DPS, I guess your DPS suck that much you need to ask someone else to do it for you

Omg those worlds best DD players who parse the highest and whose healers also parse the highest must be super duper lazy and bad!

[Awful]

I said it before and i will say it again, if a DPS ask a healer to DPS, I guess your DPS suck that much you need to ask someone else to do it for you, so instead of asking a heaelr to DPS why dont you stop being lazy and learn your rotations so you can do those "speed runs" better?

Also, tanks, If you ask a healer to DPS, I would ask you to go full sword oath and just do "damage combos" not a single "enmity combo" for the entire run and your enmity MUST be higher than the whole party, if you cant do that, you are lazy and you are NOT playing your class well.

No this is all wrong you're ignoring a huge portion of your toolkit not helping out to DPS it's not about "speed clears" it's about waking people up about this black and white issue when it really isn't black and white. If you are sitting there with a thumb up your butt, spamming Cure/Physick or whatever and i'm at 80%+ hp I expect you to DPS it's not an elitist thing it's a "your 60 now you know what's expected of you as a level 60 class". This isn't Tam Tara where you can Cure spam over and over, this is max level content where you have Holy, Assize, Asylum etc I expect you to be using them as it's common sense as a player who has all the tools available to them. If you can't handle DPSing and healing at the same time then maybe you should practice or learn how to be a better player for your own sake, i'm a tank at lvl 60 i'm not gonna hit Unleash and 1-2-3 and that's it you expect more.


As for tanks and mass pulling, yeah I pull in Grit and I drop it with my Defensive cooldowns and spam Dark Arts+ Abyssal Drain it does tons of dmg and heals me so the healer can continue DPSing without even worrying about me and I'm contributing tons of AoE dps. And guess what? I never lose threat even when i'm out of Grit, AoEing or using my single target DPS abilities on trash/bosses, i'm using defensive CDs and the dmg isn't like "OMFG WTH HEAL HEAL HEAL!!!" nothing in dungeons will hurt a tank or even one shot them unless they're dumb enough to sit in AoEs.

I ask healers to DPS not because our DPS sucks but to contribute to the party and use their toolkit in max level content no one wants an Ice Mage, a drg spamming 1-2-3 thrusts, healers sitting around 90% of the time doing nothing or tanks just doing their 1-2-3. It's just lazy and unneeded.

I think the vast majority of the posters in this thread understand how roles work. Most of them also understand when there are opportunities to expand past these defined roles into other aspects of their kit effectively, therefore adding a positive contribution to the group in the process.

This ^

[Accelerating]

I said it before and i will say it again, if a DPS ask an AST to use cards, I guess your DPS suck that much you need to ask someone else to do it for you, so instead of asking a ASTs to give balance why dont you stop being lazy and learn your rotations so you can do those "speed runs" better?

[Yeol]

People just stoped being serious. This thread is filled with jokes now.

[Malzian]

Adam Savage said it best...

[TaranTatsuuchi]

I said it before and i will say it again, if a DPS ask a healer to DPS, I guess your DPS suck that much you need to ask someone else to do it for you, so instead of asking a heaelr to DPS why dont you stop being lazy and learn your rotations so you can do those "speed runs" better?

Also, tanks, If you ask a healer to DPS, I would ask you to go full sword oath and just do "damage combos" not a single "enmity combo" for the entire run and your enmity MUST be higher than the whole party, if you cant do that, you are lazy and you are NOT playing your class well.

Alright then, on the topic of being lazy.
Here's a test someone did of only healing...

Yesterday I did some testing on how it really is like to only heal in expert roulette, which I think is a good example because it's content probably ran by majority of player base this discussion is relevant to.

I queued to expert roulette as WHM and we got Xelpathol. In addition to me, the party consisted of a WAR who had never tanked the dungeon before (no endgame experience as WAR), a BLM (his Savage job, currently on A11S progression), and a DRG (no endgame experience as DRG). So quite a random party composition with people more or less familiar with their roles in that dungeon.

The WAR pulled as much as he could at the time (not knowing the dungeon as tank he failed this a couple of times) and I would only use my healing abilities. This was the result, my every single heal cast for the whole 21 min dungeon run:

- Regen x24
- Medica II x16
- Asylum x7
- Assize x4
- Cure II x5 (between pulls, not during them)
- Tetra x4

So in addition to Medica II, the only thing I actually had to cast in the whole dungeon was Cure II, which I did a total of 5 times (between pulls, not during them). Everything else was instant cast abilities. I also used Eye for an Eye on tank and sometimes Esuna, and I cast stoneskin on everyone between pulls.

Even with this little use of healing, my overheal was 35,9%, so the actual healing requirements for this dungeon are even lower. I was active 17% of the whole dungeon while the rest of my group members were active 72-77% of the dungeon.

This is a perfect example of the low healing requirements in the game and how it causes a huge activity difference between a healer who doesn't DPS and their group members. On that run I did not contribute nearly as much as my group members, in fact I was using /icam and doing /mandervilledance while they were actually making an effort. If it would have been the tank or a DD only being active 17% of the time and dancing and idling for the rest, they would have been removed from the party, but for me, some people would actually argue I was doing just fine.

I took a video of the whole run and uploaded it in case someone's interested. This is the final boss fight, during which the only things I actually cast were 3 Medica IIs. Other than that, I used Regen (4), Assize (2) and Asylum (2). Here's the direct link to the fight: https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=17m17s

TLDR: Not DPSing as a healer means you're just being carried by your group members for over 80% of the dungeon time.

With only healing they were pusing buttons only 17% of the time.
Where the rest of the party were pushing buttons over 70% of the time.

How is that not being lazy for the healer?
If there's no support required, there should be dps going out.

[Altena]

Hopefully Stormblood will get rid of Cleric Stance and make nukes based on MND rather than INT.

At least then, healer-only-healers may be tempted to step outside their comfort zone and toss a nuke or 3.

It continually baffles me how some people don't understand that increasing overall raid / dungeon DPS also reduces the amount of healing required.

[pushin_tin]

If I shouldn't be DPSing as a healer, then I guess I also shouldn't be doing any more DPS on a DPS class than is necessary to complete a dungeon in the 90 minutes allotted. We can take our time to appreciate the scenery of Sohm Al.