Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[Niko_Kishiko]

I just re-subbed and this argument is still going on? Healers are damned if we do and damned if we don't. I see DPS standing around with a finger up their bum at least half the time or they go afk on bosses while auto attacking. How many times has a LAZY DPS been locked out and the healer is working as hard as they can DPSing to help that boss die quicker while 3 manning? Happens at least once every other day. I don't see many threads on this at all, but if a healer isn't playing so hard their thumbs are bleeding they are a "chronic underachiever" or "lazy" or people are mad they are dpsing when they see the tank get close to death.

Im so sick of this argument, really. I wish they would take away healers ability to DPS in dungeons and just add a class that debuffs and offheals. Make dungeons 6 man and raids 9 man and put in a true support dps class. PLEASE for the love of fk! Add a true support class!

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Out of curiosity what's the off tanks role if no adds or tank swaps? I guess just sit down and wait for the main tank to die.

[Taika]

Out of curiosity what's the off tanks role if no adds or tank swaps? I guess just sit down and wait for the main tank to die.

They've obviously filled their part and if the content is cleared, they've played well enough! :P

[Malzian]

Out of curiosity what's the off tanks role if no adds or tank swaps? I guess just sit down and wait for the main tank to die.

Man, if I'm OT in Ifrit HM I just go make a sandwich... XD (Kidding, of course.)

[Nixxe]

I've seen a SCH /follow tank and drink coffee.



But yeah I guess they were doing their part good enough, right...

The example of 90 mins was about if DDs and tanks would play at the same level than the SCH here in this example. But somehow only healers get defended when they decide to do something like this.

The faerie can reliably solo heal every dungeon up to Haukke Manor. I know because when I leveled my scholar, that's what I did, never leaving Cleric Stance ever. You may not like it, but the healer is doing their job adequately. Doing one's job adequately is not about the effort it takes, but the end result. If DPS could auto attack for damage on par with using their abilities, they'd be just as entitled to auto attack their way through every dungeon, even if it takes no effort. They can't, and indeed on many encounters there are soft or hard damage checks that need to be overcome, which will not be overcome if they do not use abilities. In order to adequately perform their job, they therefore need to use abilities, even though it takes more effort than the autofollow scholar.

Again though, I generally don't concern myself with what other people are doing unless we start wiping. Failure to try to micromanage or boss other players around has not resulted in any problems thus far and it seems unlikely that it would in the future.

[Taika]

The faerie can reliably solo heal every dungeon up to Haukke Manor. I know because when I leveled my scholar, that's what I did, never leaving Cleric Stance ever. You may not like it, but the healer is doing their job adequately. Doing one's job adequately is not about the effort it takes, but the end result.

Well, I think "doing one's job adequately" requires adequate participation, and claiming someone is adequately participating and / or doing their job in content while being afk and while all other members of their party are actually participating just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

If DPS could auto attack for damage on par with using their abilities, they'd be just as entitled to auto attack their way through every dungeon, even if it takes no effort. They can't, and indeed on many encounters there are soft or hard damage checks that need to be overcome, which will not be overcome if they do not use abilities. In order to adequately perform their job, they therefore need to use abilities, even though it takes more effort than the autofollow scholar.

But if there are no DPS checks, why should the DDs put in more effort than auto-attacking? Isn't it adequate by your argument, if they just clear the dungeon in 90 mins then?

And how about the DPS checks that require tank and healer DPS, such as the last boss of Antitower (where both DDs are turned into dolls and the group will wipe unless the tank and/or healer do DPS)?

[Nixxe]

I'm merely pointing out the flaws in other people's criteria on what is acceptable behavior and what is not. And all I did to that end was to apply it to DPS as well. Nothing more, nothing less. And doing so leads to results I find undesirable.

Luckily, most people I meet in the game actually do not use that criterion but rather use the one I personally proposed, which is that you should always strive to do something productive and ideally efficient regardless of role. As such, my dungeons thankfully do not take anywhere near 90 minutes either. Naturally, I find that criterion vastly superior to the one of duty completion as a result. But for some reason, other people don't, which I find both surprising and disturbing.

The flaw is in your overly literal approach to what should be an easily understood concept of dungeons are not hard and people don't need to min/max to complete them in a reasonable amount of time so long as they make some basic effort to contribute in a manner based on their assigned role.

[Nixxe]

Well, I think "doing one's job adequately" requires adequate participation, and claiming someone is adequately participating and / or doing their job in content while being afk and while all other members of their party are actually participating just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


But if there are no DPS checks, why should the DDs put in more effort than auto-attacking? Isn't it adequate by your argument, if they just clear the dungeon in 90 mins then?

And how about the DPS checks that require tank and healer DPS, such as the last boss of Antitower (where both DDs are turned into dolls and the group will wipe unless the tank and/or healer do DPS)?

I'm sufficiently confident that other players are enough like me to not want to make things take twenty times longer than they need to, especially content they've done many times before, that I'm not the least bit worried I'll ever encounter that situation. Even if I did, like I said, I'm really not interested in complaining at people unless they're hindering success to such a degree that it threatens completion.

If the encounter is designed to require healer DPS, then the healer should DPS. Again, this is all part of adequacy. However, most of the time the healer really doesn't need to DPS. It's just a convenience that speeds up the run a bit.

[DPZ2]

Yes, that has happened, more times than I'd like to count. If there were no Cleric Stance, and healing and damage were both based on Mind, it might be easier for me to quickly go back to healing when someone eats a big one.

I am just curios about something (and, Kikoten, this has nothing to do with your post, so don't consider it a pro or con reply):

If the "community" expects healers to DPS, why should the healer be charged with doing maximum damage via Cleric Stance, rather than just some damage without it?

My reasoning behind Cleric Stance as a skill is that SE didn't want to penalize healers during the Main Story quests, so gave them a way to keep Mind as a primary stat while also being able to Kill Things in solo mode in a reasonable amount of time.

That reasoning doesn't apply to group content, where the DPS is expected to Kill Things in a reasonable amount of time.

[Aramina]

So it is only healers that have to be active only 20% of the time. Everyone else must be active 70+%. Got it.