Is DPS'ing as a Healer Vote Kickable?

[Leanna]

Effectively yes. You still must get a majority vote though so you alone aren't really the say all be all for kicking.

Go in duo helps to kick anyone you want.

[Greedalox]

Go in duo helps to kick anyone you want.

That's the spirit!

[Clethoria]

Go in duo helps to kick anyone you want.

By that logic couldn't you just form a full goddamn party instead of being petty?

[Leanna]

By that logic couldn't you just form a full goddamn party instead of being petty?

Where is the fun of kicking people just because we can, then?
I mean, this whole thread is about how nice is kick people for playing in a different way you do.
But don't worry, next time I'll write /sarcasm so you don't get confused. Kick someone for not playing how YOU want is wrong, and it's the most stupid reason ever to kick someone, and for your information, I just kick bots and afk's.

The DD's should learn how to dps before ask a healer to do their job.

[Voltyblast]

If a healer decides to DPS in their downtime, while keeping the group alive, a legitimate reason to vote kick someone? Asking, since word on the streets says that we're allowed to vote kick people for differentiating playstyles.

The answer is no but unfortunately, it's the total opposite: if you DON'T DPS during downtime that's a reason enough to be kicked. So you either learn to DPS between heals or don't pick the healing job (in every possible meaning).

I picked the third choice and went tank! Toodles!

[EorzeaHero69]

Not exactly, but whether or not they're able to DPS depends on how comfortable both the healer and tanks are with handling mobs in an instance and/or how well geared they are imo. At the beginning of Besaler's Wall, though, it may be a tad difficult for even skilled healers to DPS since some mobs ignore aggro, not just the one that tethers you.

[TouchandFeel]

I am of the mind that damage abilities for a healer should be seen as part of their healing kit and responsibility. The faster something dies, the less damage it can do and therefore less healing is needed because damage has been prevented, sort of like "pro-active health management" or "preventative healing". The when's and how's of balancing dealing damage versus healing damage is part of learning the role, job and content. In some instances it is best to just focus solely on healing, others it is better to focus more on dealing damage to kill things before they deal much damage and many times it is somewhere in-between.

The simple fact of the matter is that there is an expectation between players that when grouped together for a common goal, such as running an instance, that each individual will at least try to do what they can to help the group successfully achieve the group's goal in the most satisfactory manner possible. Trying to do what you can implicitly includes using the tools available to you to the best of your ability. Part of a healer's tools are damage abilities, not using them when you are able to means that you are self-limiting for some reason, although the two I have encountered most often is out of fear of screwing up or just plain laziness.

If a player is new or uncomfortable with the healer role, that is perfectly fine and other players should be supportive of them and help teach them and inspire them to improve. Willfully shirking basic group responsibility and shouldering of effort is a different story altogether.

It is of course a player's right to do the bare minimum or potentially even less if they wish to, just as it is the right of other players to not put up with that crap.

[Mirateski]

How are we still having this debate? If a healer's job was only to heal cleric wouldn't exist, just like in pvp where the healing requirements are so intense it doesn't even let you pretend you'll have time to dps.

I'm a tank main. My hp is a resource, just like everything else. Even the weakest instant heal (Lustrate) will give me back around 33% of my hp. If I'm on full hp the entire time, the healer isn't making use of a resource. A truly skilled healer will know when they need to heal and when they don't, but even if you're just learning, regen and done until I'm on like, half hp at most. Please god, use my hp. I have so much of the stuff.

If you go into some of the other forums, you'll see people complaining about paladin. If you're not familar with the tank jobs, pld is the only tank that doesn't have an aoe damage skill on the global cooldown. Some people say taking paladin into dungeons is SELFISH because of the amount of time they add on to a run. Are they right? Well... in a perfect world, yes. Paladin will always fail compared to the other tanks when all other things are equal.

tl;dr if you're not utilising all your resources, you have room to improve. For DDs this is cooldowns and rotations, for tanks this is hate/damage/cooldown management, and for healers, yes, it's learning how to use the hp of everyone else in the party.

And for the record, I've seen healers at minimum ilv for the dungeon dps just fine. Grubal hard last patch, a whm with incredibly low hp, tank was concerned they'd have to pull small. But actually, did the usual (read: big) pulls and the healer had plenty of time to dps. Isn't it a miracle?

(But if you're new to content, there's no expectation to dps from me. You need to be comfortable either with the content or your own ability to dps to the full extent, and that comes with time and practice. I've always suggested that dps thrown out of cleric while you learn is the best way to go, because that way there's less panic moment hammering cleric off when it comes to clutch time)

[MisterLucie]

Can't we just get rid of cleric stance and balance healer damage without it? There's no reason to keep such a clunky design in place when other MMOs have demonstrated that it's unnecessary.

[Greedalox]

Can't we just get rid of cleric stance and balance healer damage without it? There's no reason to keep such a clunky design in place when other MMOs have demonstrated that it's unnecessary.

It's only clunky in the sense that it sometimes doesn't click on/off. It's purpose is pretty straight forward and anything but clunky.