The New Chat Restriction in The Feast

[Vejjiegirl]

I thought you guys were going to be removing cross class skills and condensing our skills in 4.0 to combat skill bloat? Why add all of these chat skills, it seems very counter productive.
Adding more chat commands will just add even more skill bloat.


If anything there should be Auto-Translate for these commands as well for us to use instead at least.

[Moonlite]

Have you forgotten what even started this thread? Far more people have spoken out against this than for it. If the opposite were true, the responses following this would be a lot more supportive and favorable, wouldn't you agree?

As for the idea of "Now we just have to deal." No. No we don't have to just deal with anything. If that were so true, we'd all be playing 1.0 still. Accept it as something you can control if you like, but that's how you give up your power to affect change.

Housing and inventory are calling and they have way more complaints then the pvp community could ever.

I still vote for a sticky with names and a title for people who can't control themselves. And reintroducing chat with a warning about proper use of game features.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

While they were hardly permanent fixes, you've had basements added to small houses. Multiple wards and subdivisions added. Apartments added, WITH the ability to expand the amount available greatly on demand. And while it's tentative, we asked for swimming pools and were answered on a positive note rather quickly. And Inventory, we already know that's being addressed in Stormblood.

That said, this isn't a matter of who's treated more fairly, though it doesn't go unnoticed. At this point, it's about not only barely being heard, but once we are, barely having issues at hand addressed. I mean look at it. Pages of "restore normal chat/we don't want quick chat" and months later we get "give us ideas to improve quick chat!"

No. Get rid of it. It helps no one. It complicates what was previously quite simple. It is a huge step back for trying to spark/sustain interest in the Feast.

[Moonlite]

My point was more this isn't 1.X anymore. They have long since past the idea of listening to stuff that they want to. How many years for GC's to get removed from frontlins and two lies later. How much money taken from the players for extra inventory? I could go on but any legacy player that isn't 100% rose coloured glasses realizes we are a lot closer to being run like 1.0 launch then ever before.

The handful of people upset can keep making threads. But it would be way more productive to work within what you got. And hope for 5.55 fixes (somewhat serious/realist).

Also doesn't help that some of the people in this thread have been suspended for feast chat behavior. Shouldn't really be getting support from people who have had GM action taken against them. POSSIBLY/ALLEGEDLY

[worldofneil]

Have you forgotten what even started this thread? Far more people have spoken out against this than for it. If the opposite were true, the responses following this would be a lot more supportive and favorable, wouldn't you agree?

Sorry, but not really, no. People don't generally comment on things they're happy with. Just ask any customer services desk how many compliments they get compared to the number of complaints.

Those that have created posts saying how they like they removal of chat have been met with nothing but hostility and it's hardly incentive for other people to post the same.

The majority of players don't even come to the official forums though, let alone post on them.

At the time of writing, the post about the chat removal in the questions for the Live Letter thread has only 56 likes (and this is after having a thread created just to promote it) and I don't wish to cause any (more?) offence, but I don't think the hardcore PvP community is as big as people seem to think it is. I have no doubt it's at least in the hundreds, per datacenter, but how many people are actually playing this game? Hundreds of thousands?

Whilst PvP is fun, we need to remember that PvP is essentially a bolt-on to a PvE game. It is not the primary game mode here so naturally Square Enix is going to want to make it as appealing as possible to the majority of players. They also don't want to spend their time, resources and money (staff wages!) policing any more than they have to. It's not in their interests to ban players either so this gets around that for them too as no one can get in trouble any more.

And for the record, I've also been frustrated with the lack of chat and unable to convey my thoughts, but it feels a much more enjoyable experience than it did before, so personally I'm happier with it as it is now, but more phrases being added would be good. Heck if we could string sentences together using the auto translate that'd be nice, although I'm sure that'd probably get abused too.

[Vejjiegirl]

Snip

We are finally getting inventory lifted in 4.0 because we voiced our opinions and showed SE that we were upset with the inventory, same thing for housing slots I think that is also getting boosted.

If we do not voice our displeasure then nothing will change. Player that has never been suspended ever for chat behaviors, Communication is absolutely vital for a healthy metagame and Competitive season.
These chat commands do nothing but hinder PVPers by adding unnecessary skill bloat as well, Many players do not find these systems fun and will continue to voice our opinion.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Sorry, but not really, no. People don't generally comment on things they're happy with. Just ask any customer services desk how many compliments they get compared to the number of complaints.

Did you see this today?

And there's hardly a need for hostility when arguing against someone's points that overlook important factors or simply don't hold weight. The general argument of most in favor of the changes was that they were now interested in trying the Feast because they didn't have to worry about being harrassed or insulted. They said this as if it were a frequent and common thing. Many of us who DO PvP regularly spoke up and clarified that it was not as frequent as they implied. Some were a bit more rough in response, and I'm not defending them. I AM however defending a community that is constantly mislabeled and treated secondhand.

This isn't about community size either. You would never hear me say, for example, "Crafters are more important than Gatherers because there are more of them!" (This is purely conjecture, the statement could be reversed and still be just as wrong). Or perhaps that Raiders don't matter as much as Non-Raiders because they're a minority. To even think like that is bad business, and if a company would think like that, it's the fast track to losing those people entirely. Even if PvP was "bolted on" to this game, it's here and a community has formed that enjoys it. Once again, pointing to that community and saying "well, it's only you few, so we don't need to do as much for you" is all too dismissive. Want to be like that? Then I say "Well if there's only so few of us and we only get what little you feel we deserve, then I suppose it's fair I only pay you proportionally to what you offer me." Or are you going to say $15 from a PvE-only player is worth more than $15 from a PvP-only player?

The time, money, and resources argument is invalid as well. The same time, money, and resources would be spent on, say, an issue of harrassment between players that used to date, or a player who has a history of negative behavior in PvE content (language, vote kick abuse, disruptive behavior). So no, PvP is NOT different, nor needs to be treated differently. A player behaving badly is a player behaving badly regardless of where. The idea that the Feast deserved chat restrictions - as a smaller, less-frequented content - becomes invalid if we were to apply the earlier logic that because it's not big, it's not in their interest to handle it accordingly. If we're arguing that kind of logic, then PvE content deserves chat restrictions because it's bigger, and by that logic, has more offensive players who misuse chat and behave badly. . . But we know that kind of solution would never be considered valid or sensible would it? Why then is it fine for the Feast?

I have spoken on this time and again, and I hold quite firmly to my statements. If as a PvPer - and let it be known I too enjoy PvE, but I regularly enjoy PvP - am supposed to settle for being a second priority, then it would only make sense to pay a lower "second-priority" subscription fee. But that's not how it works. My feedback - and money - as a customer should be just as valuable whether I raid, gather, dance afk in town all day, or PvP.

[worldofneil]

Did you see this today?

I have now, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? A small comment about how they like the feast chat removal and you shooting it down straight away? That's exactly what I said was happening in my previous post...

And there's hardly a need for hostility when arguing against someone's points that overlook important factors or simply don't hold weight.

What one person deems important or what "holds weight" is different to another person. You have literally said you're dismissing their points because you think they're wrong.

The general argument of most in favor of the changes was that they were now interested in trying the Feast because they didn't have to worry about being harrassed or insulted. They said this as if it were a frequent and common thing. Many of us who DO PvP regularly spoke up and clarified that it was not as frequent as they implied.

The only ones with the actual data and chat logs are Square Enix. They're the only one who know how frequent it is. I can only speak from my own experiences, as can you or any other player.

This isn't about community size either. You would never hear me say, for example, "Crafters are more important than Gatherers because there are more of them!" (This is purely conjecture, the statement could be reversed and still be just as wrong). Or perhaps that Raiders don't matter as much as Non-Raiders because they're a minority. To even think like that is bad business, and if a company would think like that, it's the fast track to losing those people entirely.

Well I don't have any figures, but I feel fairly confident that the number of crafters/gatherers are considerably higher than the number of people who play PvP.

I'm sure from SE viewpoint they want all their players to matter, but they're in a no-win situation. They can either devote resources to clean up the chat/constantly police it/the players abusing it or they can just cut it off like they have and spend those resources on other things... new content perhaps?

Or are you going to say $15 from a PvE-only player is worth more than $15 from a PvP-only player?

No... $15 is worth... $15. You can do as much or as little as you want within the game with the options they have provided.

The time, money, and resources argument is invalid as well. The same time, money, and resources would be spent on, say, an issue of harrassment between players that used to date, or a player who has a history of negative behavior in PvE content (language, vote kick abuse, disruptive behavior).

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. With or without PvP reports they're still dealing with PvE reports. It's not like blocking feast chat somehow increases PvE reports. There's now no reason to report someone for harassment in the feast, therefore less reports to deal with.

If we're arguing that kind of logic, then PvE content deserves chat restrictions because it's bigger, and by that logic, has more offensive players who misuse chat and behave badly.

Over the 3 and a half years I've played I can probably count the amount of harassment and abuse that I've seen in PvE on a single hand. In the Feast before 3.5 I could reach that same count in 20 minutes. But that's my experience and maybe your experience is different, but you said "by that logic" so that implies that's not the case and you're just assuming that because PvE is bigger than PvP the same problems must scale up too.

I have spoken on this time and again, and I hold quite firmly to my statements. If as a PvPer - and let it be known I too enjoy PvE, but I regularly enjoy PvP - am supposed to settle for being a second priority, then it would only make sense to pay a lower "second-priority" subscription fee. But that's not how it works. My feedback - and money - as a customer should be just as valuable whether I raid, gather, dance afk in town all day, or PvP.

And I'm not saying you shouldn't try to stand up for what you believe in, but just don't shoot down everyone who doesn't agree with you.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

You can keep saying that the toxicity isn't as bad as people make it out to be but SE clearly saw something was wrong.

I'm more inclined to believe there was a problem considering they have all the data.

[TiramisuMacaron]

You can keep saying that the toxicity isn't as bad as people make it out to be but SE clearly saw something was wrong.

I'm more inclined to believe there was a problem considering they have all the data.

Even if it is bad, this doesn't mean completely removing chat for all players is the right solution. This should be a punishment for infracting players that they don't want to ban. Not the norm.