So... that spiderman shirt... (new job tease)

[Shippuu]

Shippu, I don't think it is ridiculous to have faith and confidence in Square Enix as a company that they can get their act together. If thats silly, Shame on me for believing that then. So your inferring that Yoshi-P is now okay with data mining since things can change?

It's a bit ridiculous if it gets to a point where you think the company is infallable, writing off potential accidents or mistakes as being conspiracy theory levels of trolling or misderection. How you jumped to the conclusion I'm saying Yoshida is okay with data mining is beyond me however.

Look I take it that you want Samurai pretty badly. That's okay, it's great to be passionate about something. But that doesn't mean all other job possibilities are invalid. Just because of some data files does not confirm Samurai especially how much of a troll Yoshi-P can be.

My desire for Samurai is no secret, but there's a difference between my bias being backed up with actual hard evidence (multiple instances of that as well, not simply the data files), and your bias causing you to perform mental gymnastics to disregard/ignore/dismiss evidence because it doesn't support your desires.

[frankenbeans]

It's a bit ridiculous if it gets to a point where you think the company is infallable, writing off potential accidents or mistakes as being conspiracy theory levels of trolling or misderection. How you jumped to the conclusion I'm saying Yoshida is okay with data mining is beyond me however.



My desire for Samurai is no secret, but there's a difference between my bias being backed up with actual hard evidence (multiple instances of that as well, not simply the data files), and your bias causing you to perform mental gymnastics to disregard/ignore/dismiss evidence because it doesn't support your desires.

Mental gymnastics? Mental gymnastics is your belief that those data files are hard proof. Frankly your insulting tone is completely unwanted. First of all taking those data files as "Hard Evidence" is premature at best. If your other evidence is that Samurai was mentioned in the anniversary event well guess what Blue mage was mentioned too.

Here is some equally "Hard evidence" to support Blue mage.

1. It is an original and classic final fantasy job showing up in many final fantasy games in one form or another, way more than Samurai ever is. This is pertinent because Yoshida emphasized they were adding classic jobs true to final fantasy.

2. The In game mentions of blue mage. BLue was hinted at being added in the aniversary event same as Sam. Hoary Boulder mentions meeting warriors who use the powers of their enemies against them. Raubhan oozes blue mage as hes the Bull of Ala Mhigo, his fight with ilberd, oh and him being a very important blue mage character in FFXI.

3. The red and blue theme of Stormblood. First the Name Stormblood. Storm evokes blue and Blood red. There's even a dye in the game right now called Storm Blue. Then we have the Red and Blue auras in the trailer. Why add that? Just to be artistic? Then look at Ala Mhigo's flag color. Its purple like a combination of red and blue. Then we have the New Years Poem with Mentioning Crimson in the east (red mage announced in Japan) and Azure Squall in the west (possible blue mage announcement in Germany, considered the west) I find that it takes mental gymnastics to dismiss all of the color references as mere coincidences.

4. And now the Spider man shirt. What's Spiderman's color scheme. Is it possibly red and blue? How did spider man gain his powers, he got bit by a spider and now has spider powers. Blue mages get hit by beast magic and now gains their ability. Heck spiderman's rogues gallery are all enemies named after animals. Doc Oc the Vulture etc. Now you say well there is Sam Raimi, well guess what he wasn't the only one who directed a spider man movie, Yoshi P even states this. He hinted at spider webber, a possible reference to spider web which was a blue mage spell in FF8. All of Yoshi-P's shirts have been on the nose and fairly obvious. So why pick spiderman to represent SAM when marvel Has the Silver Samurai. Heck even Wolverine would have been a more obvious samurai reference as he has more samurai influences than Spiderman.

5. Those data files could be a troll, unused assets, or Sam can even mean SAMPLE. Yoshi is a big troll and I wouldn't put it past him to intentionally put those in the patch to throw people off the scent and to surprise them at the Fan Festival. The fact of the matter is we wont know until then.

So to repeat, we have a classic class in blue mage, a very prominent color scheme for the expansion, just as many blue mage references as sam references, The t-shirt and then the possibility that those data files are misdirection. These are all equal to your supposed "hard evidence" for Samurai and I state again that it takes more mental gymnastic to ignore all of this evidence than to repeat the mantra Sam Raimi! Datamine!

I honestly suggest that you take your hostility down a notch. There is no harm in discussing other possible options other than Samurai, the second job has already been decided so no matter what we type in the forums be they support for SAM or BLU, they are not going to change their mind now. So sit back and relax and let others speculate and please be civil.

[Shippuu]

Mental gymnastics? Mental gymnastics is your belief that those data files are hard proof. Frankly your insulting tone is completely unwanted. First of all taking those data files as "Hard Evidence" is premature at best.

I don't think you know the definition of mental gymnastics then, because data files that are named in a pattern shared by every other job in the game that verifies a highly requested and sure to be added job to the game is hardly a leap in any kind of logic. But turning around and seeing those, and saying they aren't what they obviously, and must be a false flag/red herring/trolling attempt, is indeed reaching in a less logical way. Sometimes things are often just what they appear to be.

If your other evidence is that Samurai was mentioned in the anniversary event well guess what Blue mage was mentioned too.

And that's where you're wrong. The Rising event specifically mentioned Red Mage and Samurai directly by name. It did NOT however, specifically name Blue Mage. A random bubble-text (So not a direct in game statement by Yoshida's in game counterpart) talked merely about colors, stating the colors white, black, red, and blue. This exchange of banter was also not present in other languages. A nod towards blue mage sure, but far from a direct mention by name.

Here is some equally "Hard evidence" to support Blue mage.

1. It is an original and classic final fantasy job showing up in many final fantasy games in one form or another, way more than Samurai ever is. This is pertinent because Yoshida emphasized they were adding classic jobs true to final fantasy.

As a job itself it has rarely appeared more than Samurai. It's abilities and the mechanic of using monster abilities is present in other forms, but it's not always referred to as Blue Magic.

2. The In game mentions of blue mage. BLue was hinted at being added in the aniversary event same as Sam. Hoary Boulder mentions meeting warriors who use the powers of their enemies against them. Raubhan oozes blue mage as hes the Bull of Ala Mhigo, his fight with ilberd, oh and him being a very important blue mage character in FFXI.

As pointed out above, it was not named directly during the event which did mention Samurai and Red Mage specifically. Hoary Boulder makes no mention of warriors who use the powers of their enemies, only that he trained with Hannish warriors (Fighters from Radz-at-Han), and that he has partaken in the Trial of the Braves (a Thavnairian legend of which us player characters partook in to form our relic weapons). Raubhan being the "Bull of Ala Mhigo" is nothing but a monicker, just as in our PvP armor is themed around animals, his abilities have no similarity with any monster abilities aside from some re-used assets from Ifrit, all of which are named and performed by his cursed magical sword. FFXI =/= FFXIV, his name is nothing but a throwback from generally the same team. He is not a Blue Mage.

3. The red and blue theme of Stormblood. First the Name Stormblood. Storm evokes blue and Blood red. There's even a dye in the game right now called Storm Blue. Then we have the Red and Blue auras in the trailer. Why add that? Just to be artistic? Then look at Ala Mhigo's flag color. Its purple like a combination of red and blue. Then we have the New Years Poem with Mentioning Crimson in the east (red mage announced in Japan) and Azure Squall in the west (possible blue mage announcement in Germany, considered the west) I find that it takes mental gymnastics to dismiss all of the color references as mere coincidences.

The color themes of the expansion have nothing to do with the jobs (Or else Blue mage would have been in Heavensward, who's color theme was Blue, even in it's JP title: The Azure Skies of Ishgard). Stormblood does not have a Red vs Blue theme, it's thematic color is Red (JP title: Crimson Liberators). The red and blue auras are just that, artistic, also to reference the past (Heavensward) to the future (Stormblood) which is exactly what the new years poem was referencing. The Hyur in the cinematic is also coming from being a Dragoon, of which they have Blood of the Dragon which gives them a glowing Blue aura almost identical to the one portrayed in the cinematic.

It doesn't take mental gymnastics to dismiss those because they're already extreme reaches and absolutely vague mentions at best. A far cry from actual concrete mentions of things such as Samurai.

4. And now the Spider man shirt. What's Spiderman's color scheme. Is it possibly red and blue? How did spider man gain his powers, he got bit by a spider and now has spider powers. Blue mages get hit by beast magic and now gains their ability. Heck spiderman's rogues gallery are all enemies named after animals. Doc Oc the Vulture etc. Now you say well there is Sam Raimi, well guess what he wasn't the only one who directed a spider man movie, Yoshi P even states this. He hinted at spider webber, a possible reference to spider web which was a blue mage spell in FF8. All of Yoshi-P's shirts have been on the nose and fairly obvious. So why pick spiderman to represent SAM when marvel Has the Silver Samurai. Heck even Wolverine would have been a more obvious samurai reference as he has more samurai influences than Spiderman.

Why not pick Silver Samurai? You mean the choice that literally names the job? I don't know, maybe because it's far too obvious and easy and Yoshida wanted to pick a more obscure reference because there was already good money on Samurai coming because of an abundance of evidence from the past? I'm not denying a spiderman shirt could be Blue Mage, but during the JP Fanfest, Yoshida straight up made that connection and talked about how people were talking about the shirt being Blue Mage. He talked about it to deflect talking about his guest's theory of a Samurai/Shogun tank, where as when he was interviewed about the shirt director aspect, he deflected that by saying there's more than one director (rather than saying it has nothing to do with the director). These things combined imply the director theory is actually closer to the mark, as he wouldn't validate the Blue Mage theory by talking about it and accepting the connection if it was the correct one.

5. Those data files could be a troll, unused assets, or Sam can even mean SAMPLE. Yoshi is a big troll and I wouldn't put it past him to intentionally put those in the patch to throw people off the scent and to surprise them at the Fan Festival. The fact of the matter is we wont know until then.

Occam's razor, the theory with the least amount of assumptions is often the correct one. It does not mean sample, because it is in a folder with other folders named in exactly the same format, including jobrdm. Again though, you're making far more assumptions which logically makes it less likely to be the correct one.

So to repeat, we have a classic class in blue mage, a very prominent color scheme for the expansion, just as many blue mage references as sam references, The t-shirt and then the possibility that those data files are misdirection. These are all equal to your supposed "hard evidence" for Samurai and I state again that it takes more mental gymnastic to ignore all of this evidence than to repeat the mantra Sam Raimi! Datamine!

Samurai has all of these things (besides the color thing, but as I stated, that's wrong ), on top of having the data files which is far more apparent, and an ACTUAL direct mention in the Rising event. A recent mention in game (by direct name) acknowledging they exist in the setting, AND it was directly stated to be in development for the tank for Heavensward before changing (at the last minute too) to Dark Knight, meaning it's on the very top of their list of jobs to add into the game. Your arguments/examples are not even close to being equal.

[frankenbeans]

Shippu again with your tone. Assuming now that I don't know the definition of mental gymnastics? Seriously?

1. First you dismiss the Blue mage because during the anniversary event. The NPC didn't add mage to the end of blue? Your argument is pure semantics. They were clearly referencing Black, White what comes after red or don't you mean Blue?

2. You said Blue mage has rarely appeared more than Samurai? That right there is a bold faced Lie. You can just count the games, heck go to the final fantasy wiki and type in blue mage and samurai and compare their appearances. You say that blue mage doesn't count because its not always refereed to blue magic. Again pure semantics your focusing on the words and not the substance.

3. Raubhan: You claim he has nothing to do with Blue Mage? Where is your evidence. All you do is say he has nothing to do with Blue mage and hes just a throwback and means nothing. Do you have any evidence compared to just your opinion. Your belief that its just a coincidence that Raubhan and his sword are modeled after the blue mage character. Well guess what, That isn't proof that's just your opinion and the equivalent to burring your head in the sand because it doesn't fit with samurai. Everyone is entitled to their OPINION but OPINIONS are not FACTS. The FACT is Raubhan is called the "Bull of Ala Mhigo". He wears beast themed armor, he has a blue mage's name and a blue mage's sword. When he fought Ilberd He made bestial noises and Roars that humans don't make. It doesn't take a leap of faith to believe that FFXIV Raubhan could be a possible blue mage.

4. Again your belief That the Red and Blue color scheme mean absolutely nothing, that its just a coincidence is you again burring your head in the sand because it doesn't fit Samurai. You have no evidence that it means nothing, again that's just your belief and frankly believing that its all just a coincidence is akin to willful ignorance. You keep offering your opinion as if its gospel but its not.

5. Dark Knight wasn't too obvious? Scarlet Witch literally meaning red mage, wasnt too obvious compared to Silver Samurai? I see that you completely disregarded wolverine whom could have fit far more nicely as a samurai than spiderman. Yoshi-P already said the shirt didn't refer to sam raimi but you treat this too mean, oh no yes it does mean Sam Raimi. Samurai confirmed! Again you offer no proof that he actually meant the opposite of what he said, just your die hard belief that it means samurai.

6. You use Occam's razor like a magic spell. Yes it's the simplest hypothesis that the sam files are real but again that is not a fact, it does not refute that it could be a troll or misdirection since its not out of Yoshi-P's character. Simplest does not always mean the most correct or true. Again this is your Opinion, just like my Opinion is that those data files are misdirection.

7. Yes, Yoshi did say that Shogun was replaced by Dark Knight because Dark Knight fit more thematically with Ishgard. Well guess what, just because it was replaced does not mean that shogun is next in line. Also Shogun was replaced because it didn't fit the theme. How does Samurai fit the theme of Ala Mhigo more than a blue mage? The pattern of no real evidence but mere Opinions/Speculations continues with you.

In conclusion, you offer nothing but opinions as evidence that Samurai is the next class. You dismiss speculation about blue mage but you argue semantics/wordplay and offer your own samurai speculations as fact. Sorry, I remain unconvinced. Nothing you argued confirms samurai over blue mage. Your arguments are OPINIONS just like mine.

[Shippuu]

Shippu again with your tone. Assuming now that I don't know the definition of mental gymnastics? Seriously?

You can tone police all you want. I assumed you didn't know the definition because you displayed that you didn't know it by using it incorrectly, by applying it to reasoning that is a logical conclusion and acting like it's not the simplest logical conclusion.

1. First you dismiss the Blue mage because during the anniversary event. The NPC didn't add mage to the end of blue? Your argument is pure semantics. They were clearly referencing Black, White what comes after red or don't you mean Blue?

Funny how you conveniently ignore the fact the lines in the other 3 languages made zero references to colors or jobs regarding that. You can try and call it semantics all you want, but making an offhand indirect reference, and directly listing something by name, are very different things.

2. You said Blue mage has rarely appeared more than Samurai? That right there is a bold faced Lie. You can just count the games, heck go to the final fantasy wiki and type in blue mage and samurai and compare their appearances. You say that blue mage doesn't count because its not always refereed to blue magic. Again pure semantics your focusing on the words and not the substance.

I mean, you asked for this, and I'm going to throw you a bone and even count games where the blue mage wasn't even called blue mage and their abilities weren't even called blue magic (such as FFX-2's gun mage).

Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Final Fantasy Tactics A2
Final Fantasy Tactics S
Final Fantasy Type-0
Pictologica Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade
Final Fantasy All the Bravest
Final Fantasy Explorers

Total Tally: 15

Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy Legend 2
Final Fantasy Type-0
Final Fantasy Explorers
Pictologica Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade
Final Fantasy All the Bravest
Final Fantasy Record Keeper
Mobius Final Fantasy

Total Tally: 16
And that's being generous and not counting other somewhat more obscure Final Fantasy games such as Final Fantasy Artniks where there is a Samurai but no Blue Mage. Or non-Final Fantasy titles that share the same classic jobs, such as Samurai Rising, which features a Samurai job, but not a Blue Mage. Or the latest Dissidia game, where Bartz has a move literally called Samurai that performs Gil Toss, making him a character that represents a Samurai. So yeah, you're wrong there too buddy. Samurai has made more appearances in Final Fantasy games than Blue Mage.

3. Raubhan: You claim he has nothing to do with Blue Mage? Where is your evidence. All you do is say he has nothing to do with Blue mage and hes just a throwback and means nothing.

You have no evidence he's a blue mage either except for extreme reaches. Him sharing a name means nothing, especially in Final Fantasy where tons of names of characters, weapons, monsters, abilities, share their name across the series yet have often drastic differences between iterations. Raubhan's actions in his initial rage was more akin to Warrior's Inner Beast than any blue magic. His animal theme motif is shared by other characters from the bloodsands and gladiatorial arenas, and Blue Mage has zero history of ever having animal themes (that's the domain of Beastmasters afterall). The Raubhan stuff is all reaching and a far cry from being an actual solid connection.

4. Again your belief That the Red and Blue color scheme mean absolutely nothing, that its just a coincidence is you again burring your head in the sand because it doesn't fit Samurai. You have no evidence that it means nothing, again that's just your belief and frankly believing that its all just a coincidence is akin to willful ignorance. You keep offering your opinion as if its gospel but its not.

I have no evidence it means nothing, but it's common sense that it's simply aesthetic choices. Just like you have no evidence it's what you imply it is. They're primary colors for god's sake, and there's been zero actual evidence from any of the team that the colors displayed are any kind of hint towards jobs being added.

5. Dark Knight wasn't too obvious? Scarlet Witch literally meaning red mage, wasnt too obvious compared to Silver Samurai? I see that you completely disregarded wolverine whom could have fit far more nicely as a samurai than spiderman. Yoshi-P already said the shirt didn't refer to sam raimi but you treat this too mean, oh no yes it does mean Sam Raimi. Samurai confirmed! Again you offer no proof that he actually meant the opposite of what he said, just your die hard belief that it means samurai.

Except he didn't say the shirt didn't refer to sam raimi, only that when asked about it he said there are more than one directors. That's a far cry from straight up saying "it has nothing to do with the directors." and is more in line with deflecting and playing coy. Y'know, just like he said the Scarlet Witch shirt had nothing to do with a job reveal. It's called reading between the lines.

7. Yes, Yoshi did say that Shogun was replaced by Dark Knight because Dark Knight fit more thematically with Ishgard. Well guess what, just because it was replaced does not mean that shogun is next in line. Also Shogun was replaced because it didn't fit the theme. How does Samurai fit the theme of Ala Mhigo more than a blue mage? The pattern of no real evidence but mere Opinions/Speculations continues with you.

The postponing of Samurai was two-fold. It was partly it didn't fit the Heavensward theme, and partly because they didn't want to release a second eastern themed job so close to Ninja's release. And guess what, things have changed, they learned from their mistake of gating the jobs into Ishgard access and thus the reasoning for why those jobs were connected to Ishgard. The new jobs are confirmed to be accessible in ARR areas, meaning the prior restriction of needing to fit thematically with the city are gone, as well as enough time has passed since Ninja's release that another eastern job is viable. Neither of them need to fit the theme of Ala Mhigo at all.

In conclusion, you offer nothing but opinions as evidence that Samurai is the next class. You dismiss speculation about blue mage but you argue semantics/wordplay and offer your own samurai speculations as fact. Sorry, I remain unconvinced. Nothing you argued confirms samurai over blue mage. Your arguments are OPINIONS just like mine.

You can continue to live in your denial then. You can ignore the evidence until you're blue (hah) in the face.

[ErikMynhier]

Originally Posted by Final Fantasy Games where Samurai was a job or had a character representing said job
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy Legend 2
Final Fantasy Type-0
Final Fantasy Explorers
Pictologica Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade
Final Fantasy All the Bravest
Final Fantasy Record Keeper
Mobius Final Fantasy

Sorry, you missed one. Samurai was in FFTA2 also under the name Parivir (Youjimbo in the JP version). Wasn't out and out called Samurai but it was. So the count would be 17.

Also are you counting the Bravery Default series?