Revelations from Patch 3.5

[CGMidlander]

So technically when we defeated Bahamut he wasn't at full power. The primal that Ilberd was summoning was suppose to be more powerful than Bahamut, who caused a Calamity. If it is Rhalgr than that makes sense--a partial summoning of the Twelve was used to try to power the seal to permanently contain Bahamut because a full summoning would have destroyed all life on Hydaelyn. It took another primal with Tupsimati and basically a death-powered summoning to even make a dent in Bahamut at full power. Rhalgr is only one of the Twelve but worship of the Twelve predates the Allagans and it is implied that they are on a completely different level than other deities in Eorzea. With his sacrifice and Tupsimati, Papalymo only bought the Scions time. I want to know what Elidibus is playing at since "kill everything" is not his usual style.

/10character

"Bahamut full power" (The one that destroyed FFXIV 1.0) had thousands of years to charge in a moon-sized container full of dragon batteries.

Ilberd's thing did not. Unless he found some way of gathering huge amounts of aether in a very short amount of time that alluded even the Allagans, it's unlikely that it would have compared to full Bahamut.

I think people are underestimating it.

We don't know how much aether the eyes still possessed. At multiple times throughout the story it's been implied that the eyes are effectively limitless in their power. Ilberd is also the first summoner we've seen to perform a self-sacrifice as part of the ritual. The original extreme primals highlighted that sacrifice directly increases the strength of the summoned creature so there's no telling how much more powerful a deiform summoned by self-sacrifice would be. Ilberd seemed convinced that it would be more powerful than even Bahamut though, and the Dreadwyrm was so powerful that we couldn't face him head on as it was.

The eyes are unlimited in that they absorb surrounding aether over time, but they can still be drained over the span of something short like a fight. If that were not the case, then we could not have defeated Thordan or Nidhogg, whose forms were sustained by aether.

Self sacrifice isn't likely a huge augment. (Especially that of a mere one person. The other dead people were not voluntary.) It helps, but if it really does modify summonings to >Bahamut levels, then you'd have huge threats popping up all the time, what with all the crazy cults & desperate inhabitants everywhere in Eorzea.

[Naria]

"Bahamut full power" (The one that destroyed FFXIV 1.0) had thousands of years to charge in a moon-sized container full of dragon batteries.

Ilberd's thing did not. Unless he found some way of gathering huge amounts of aether in a very short amount of time that alluded even the Allagans, it's unlikely that it would have compared to full Bahamut.

Granted this is basically speculation but if it is Rhalgr then he has been worshiped for millennia as well--longer than Bahamut was trapped in that moon, and likely by a much larger population. From my understanding it was the faith and not "dragons are a great source of aether" that was empowering Bahamut. I can't go look through the CSes to confirm atm since Aether Datacenter is (ironically) down.

If it isn't who I think it is then yeah my argument doesn't have much to stand on.

[Mysteltain]

Granted this is basically speculation but if it is Rhalgr then he has been worshiped for millennia as well--longer than Bahamut was trapped in that moon, and likely by a much larger population. From my understanding it was the faith and not "dragons are a great source of aether" that was empowering Bahamut. I can't go look through the CSes to confirm atm since Aether Datacenter is (ironically) down.

If it isn't who I think it is then yeah my argument doesn't have much to stand on.

I'm pretty sure Primals gain power at two points. The first point is when they are initial summoned, and that power is the result of the crystal/aetheric offerings and the prayers of their followers. Ilberd had the prayers and aether in spades for this, as did Tiamat when she summoned Bahamut. The second point is the continued prayers and offering of aether after the Primal is summoned. It's this second point that made Bahamut so absurdly stong: he had millenia of prayers from a large number of his brood that were confined with him inside of Dalamud. Ilberd's Primal--be it Rhalgr or something else--will never receive the amount of aether or prayers that Bahamut did for that reason: the time between summoning and its eventual release will not be that long.

Of course, I could also be completely off base with this assumption, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Naria]

My idea that cumulative faith matters is coming from Thordan--he specifically references "a millennium of prayer" powering him when he is defeated. I'll have to go digging a bit more and see if there is any other reference to this or if that line is English only. That will take a bit of time.

Aether datacenter is still down. I probably won't be able to get back on tonight.

[Cilia]

OK, finished the Warring Triad and Scholasticate! Actually I did Scholasticate last night, but...

Warring Triad

Well, with others' information it wasn't too surprising. Van Hydrus proposed an alliance, got himself killed defending Unukalhai, we beat the crap out of Zurvan, and then Unukalhai revealed himself as both Elidibus' servant and a survivor from the void.

I almost declined van Hydrus' offer (not that I could really have done so, but you know). Not because I didn't understand the necessity of it, mind, but because he still insisted on calling us savages. That's... not how you conduct diplomacy. One would hope a legatus would know better, even in an urgent situation!

Zurvan was... a bit of a let down. It's visually impressive to be certain, but other than the fire / ice seals he has no real tricks up his sleeve, and went down after one screw-up on my end. Curious that he was the only member of the Warring Triad without a vocal theme.

That Unukalhai was from the void and Elidibus' servant was... unsurprising. There's no other way he could have known so much about the void, and without Ascian assistance it's questionable how he could have gotten to our world. At least we do know Elidibus is honest when he says he's trying to keep cosmic balance.

Kind of sad to see van Hydrus go. Though we had our differences we could have been comrades, were it not for our clashing ideals.

Scholasticate

Kind of a disappointing end. The culprit was increasingly obvious, and the mastermind practically outed himself. Lebrassoir stood the most to gain and was rather beneath suspicion... which was why I began to suspect him. "Father" Saturnois' uncompromising position in expelling Archombadin also showed he quite clearly had ties to what was going on.

Unfortunately, I feel that the questline being dragged out over 3.1 - 3.5 made it difficult to remember all the characters, and the mastermind's motive felt like a deus ex machina. Nothing really foreshadowed it, though at the least it explains some of the more curious aspects of Ishgardian history (i.e. how only the Archbishop and Heavens' Ward know the truth of the Dragonsong War). Small details, to be sure, but details nonetheless.

It wasn't a bad sidestory, don't get me wrong, but... none of the characters really made an impression on me besides Crammevoix, and with the story stretched out over a year I didn't remember many of the important details, relying on obvious cues as to who the culprit and mastermind were. For mystery stories I'd prefer something more like the Gold Saucer's murder mystery case, where you had to actually search for clues and discern the truth for yourself, instead of having Briarden exposit the truth and giving you a few multiple choices that make no real difference. I understand they can't do that with every such thing, but... the Gold Saucer murder case set the bar kind of high. In my opinion.

At least I got a new emote out of it. Got plenty of glasses already...

On Garlean Ethics and Morality
Forewarning! No complaints!

I've never said the Garleans don't have their good points, or are entirely ignoble or irredeemable. Unlike Eorzeans they are proactive in dealing with the primal issue, taking matters into their own hands instead of simply reacting to threats. They're not afraid of technology, which I think is Eorzea's biggest failing - the Garleans have magitek robots, while Eorzea's most advanced machines not of Garlean design are airships and pea shooters. They have noble individuals who fight and die for their ideals and countrymen.

That said, my issue with Garlemald is not any individuals, but their actions and policies as a sovereign nation. It's political. Individuals like Regula van Hydrus having some decency (even if he insulted us in the next breath) doesn't change that their goal is to bring the entire world to heel, and as someone who values freedom I cannot abide that. As long as their goal remains "peace through tyranny," I don't see us forming any alliances with the Garleans aside from ones of necessity and/or convenience. And for every Regula, we have a Nael / Eula.

That's not to say Garlemald can't get better - but as long as world domination is their (Varis') goal, and the populace remains apathetic to or supportive of that goal along with how horribly conquered peoples are treated and his Machiavellian "the ends justify the means" philosophy, I can't really support Garlemald as a nation. "They were pushed around before magitek" isn't an excuse, since the territories they're now conquering and holding are so far removed from the Garlean homeland it's rather improbable they had anything to do with that - meaning "to survive" or even petty vengeance can't be used to justify it.

I want to see more heroic and good Garleans as much as anyone else. That's just going to take a lot of reformation.

EDIT
Hildibrand

Aww... that was heartwarming! And it's nice to see Cyr actually got character development in instead of becoming Charibert 2.0!

Now if only I could get Julyan to teach me to get that more intense aura and the glowing eyes...

A couple thoughts on the MSQ... or rather in general...

OK, Papalymo has implicitly died, and you're saying "Bury yourself in work to forget your grief?" That's seriously unhealthy! If that's how the Scions cope it's no surprise Thancred lashed out at Emannelain (not that the kid didn't deserve it) and the Warrior of Light's negativity took on a corporeal form of its own! It's no small part of what led to Thancred getting possessed by Lahabrea, setting a lot of 2.0 into motion!

Seriously! Seriously unhealthy!

[Fenral]

Dun Scaith

We beat the bad guys, and nobody needed to convert their life-force or seal themselves in time to do it. A hard-earned happy ending with no forced smiles. We might see the Redbills again, but even if we don't, I don't feel like anything was left undone. In any other episodic story, I'd have expected this outcome, but in FFXIV all I can think is "There, was that so hard?"

I think the only disappointment in the entire thing was Diabolos not getting a new theme.

[OpticOcelot]

Biggest surprise by far

[Almagnus1]

Actually...

Looking at what happened to the Louisoix in Final Coils after he cast the same spell against Bahamut and became the Phoenix primal, I'm wondering if Papalymo isn't going to become a primal himself.

It's not completely without precedent considering YSale, and only three of us actually know the final outcome of Louisoix. And we've also seen the primal inherit some of the personality of the summoner with the kobold kid that summoned Titan.

I'm not so sure things are as clear as we think they may be.

[RobinMalvin]

SNIP

Only that it's different case.

Louisoix's spell on Bahamut didn't succeed and caused a huge amount of aether in the air which he absorbed into himself to become primal. Papalymo's spell worked and assuming that the spell can cost the caster's all aetheric reserve, it's unlikely he survived.

It makes me wonder why Louisoix still had enough power to cast powerful speel that sent WoL through time and space after that. Maybe he used the same aether residue...

[Dualblade]

Only that it's different case.

Louisoix's spell on Bahamut didn't succeed and caused a huge amount of aether in the air which he absorbed into himself to become primal. Papalymo's spell worked and assuming that the spell can cost the caster's all aetheric reserve, it's unlikely he survived.

It makes me wonder why Louisoix still had enough power to cast powerful speel that sent WoL through time and space after that. Maybe he used the same aether residue...

He used some of the leftover aether to invoke Althyk (God of Time among the Twelve) to send the 1.0 WoL to the future.