Please lift glamour restrictions!

[Reaperking386]

Any form of compromise equals a slippery slope and a lost still to those who wish for the AF armor to be preserved to their respective class. Neither side is selfish, but neither side is willing to give an inch. We are all thinking for what is best for the game.

[DarkDedede]

We are all thinking for what is best for the game.

Oh, let's be honest here. We are all thinking of what's best for our own personal experience. Yeah, I'd say that's pretty selfish.

Also, the fact that so many people aren't willing to compromise on hypothetical suggestions, especially when it's really not anyone but the game devs compromise/inch to give, is especially selfish and downright silly.

I'm pretty sure the devs aren't even going to look at this thread anyways. Also, I must give credit where actual credit is deserved. Were any community reps to bother wading through this thread, in search of any thing of use, I tip my proverbial hat to them.

[Reaperking386]

Oh, let's be honest here. We are all thinking of what's best for our own personal experience. Yeah, I'd say that's pretty selfish.

Also, the fact that so many people aren't willing to compromise on hypothetical suggestions, especially when it's really not anyone but the game devs compromise/inch to give, is especially selfish and downright silly.

I'm pretty sure the devs aren't even going to look at this thread anyways. Also, I must give credit where actual credit is deserved. Were any community reps to bother wading through this thread, in search of any thing of use, I tip my proverbial hat to them.

*cracks fingers*

Do not assume that you know me or any other player here. Do not look down on any forum and deem it unworthy to the Devs. You are not a Dev and you are not better than us to look down upon.
We have our passion and hearts for this game and we fight hard for our respective side because we believe on what is good for the game, but sadly one side must lose and one side must win.

[DarkDedede]

*cracks fingers*

Do not assume that you know me or any other player here. Do not look down on any forum and deem it unworthy to the Devs. You are not a Dev and you are not better than us to look down upon.
We have our passion and hearts for this game and we fight hard for our respective side because we believe on what is good for the game, but sadly one side must lose and one side must win.

A very inspired performance, I must say. However, I would also warn you against making similar assumptions about others. Assuming the assumed assumption wasn't just part of the performance, of course.

My original criticism was aimed at the thread in general, which from the few pages I browsed, is a "passionate" mess. Also, "do not assume" that any of my responses were directed directly, or indirectly, just for you (that would have been bad form, and rude (this response is, by the way)). The criticism was for the direction the discussion is heading, not just for you.

Contrary to popular belief, the forum community is not above reproach (passion or not). I know this is the internet and all, but let's at least be civil. Personal attacks are pretty much off topic (yes, I also know I am not a mod, but off topic is off topic). I think it would be a much better use of time and energy focus on the topic at hand. We want what we want, because we want it. The only difference that I see is how many others we are willing to include in that which happens to be what we want. Personally I would live with a solution where both "sides" win.

I suppose you can call me a "hopeless optimist." I mean, I seriously still expect the Glamour Log to happen, in some form or fashion (I know, right?).

[Gemina]

I'm pretty sure the devs aren't even going to look at this thread anyways. Also, I must give credit where actual credit is deserved. Were any community reps to bother wading through this thread, in search of any thing of use, I tip my proverbial hat to them.

Whether they do or not, this is a thread they should look at. If someone's job was to listen to the hearts of the FFXIV community, they will find them ripe and in abundance here. Just because I am steadfast in my views does not mean I don't respect the opposing side, and hope others feel the same way.

I've been in this thread from the start, and I can't remember a time anywhere, on any forum where things have been this civil. Yeah, there has been some lashes, but for the most part I'm wanting to invite the whole lot out for drinks.

[DarkDedede]

Whether they do or not, this is a thread they should look at.

Oh I agree, which was partly the reason I chose to join the discussion. I have the utmost faith in these forums and their intended purpose. I wouldn't frequent them as often as I do, if I didn't have the faith (again, "hopeless optimist" ). It was more a compliment to the community team for "wading" through the forums for any type of insight (in this thread, and elsewhere). I suppose I should have rephrased what was said a little less absurdly. Apologies for any confusion (I still tip my hat to them).

[Miste]

Oh, let's be honest here. We are all thinking of what's best for our own personal experience. Yeah, I'd say that's pretty selfish.

Also, the fact that so many people aren't willing to compromise on hypothetical suggestions, especially when it's really not anyone but the game devs compromise/inch to give, is especially selfish and downright silly.

I'm pretty sure the devs aren't even going to look at this thread anyways. Also, I must give credit where actual credit is deserved. Were any community reps to bother wading through this thread, in search of any thing of use, I tip my proverbial hat to them.

I actually saw many people in this thread offer compromises and concede compromises on both sides. The two ideas you posted when you entered this thread have actually already been posted by other people earlier actually so unfortunately you didn't give us new ideas.

So idk...you might want to read the whole thread before you say that so many aren't willing. You kind of admitted you only read a few pages in another post so your statements about the majority mentality of the people in the thread kind of holds no water. Nor is you calling the thread selfish and silly because of a few pages out of 40. Also saw a lot of people just post "I agree" or "I don't agree" and left it at that and someone isn't automatically selfish just for agreeing or disagreeing with something about a game.

let's be honest here. We are all thinking of what's best for our own personal experience

What is this? ^ ...Why would you try to attach your personal beliefs onto others :/ How do I even interpret this in a good way? It's like you are saying "I am selfish, so you all must be selfish too, don't try to lie about it."

I apologize if I am misunderstanding, but I can't figure it out any other way.

I get it that the human condition includes selfishness, but I hope that most of us try our best not to be selfish. Sharing and caring was kind of something they started teaching us in Kindergarten.

While I can get the idea behind keeping the "Job stuff" job linked for the identity of the job I don't understand why we can't have the restrictions left for some of the basics stuff like the Hempen Camise for example

A lot of people have conceded to opening up most of the gear for glamour; including me.

Like only around 10% (max, and probably being generous) of the gear in the game is job locked to one job only. I personally already compromised my stance where you guys can have that 90% of the gear how you want it: no glamour restrictions, but leave that 10% job locked gear restricted since it is part of the FF franchise image to be designed and locked for those jobs.

So that is 90% of the gear in the game free from restrictions for everyone to use, while keeping that 10% job locked gear to respect tradition.

Unfortunately some people have said they still don't agree with this. Some on my side and quite a bit of the other side.

[DarkDedede]

What is this? ^ ...Why would you try to attach your personal beliefs onto others :/ How do I even interpret this in a good way? It's like you are saying "I am selfish, so you all must be selfish too, don't try to lie about it."

Allow me to clarify then. The way I see it, there are two "sides" to this "argument."

One "side" is pretty much like "I want to dress how I like. If I play two jobs, and want to express myself as a hybrid as both jobs, I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to express myself as such. Customization and personal expression is fun. Please devs, allow me to this type of expression to be less restrictive."

The other "side" is pretty much like "I like the way I view this in game world. I like how the themes are crafted in this in game world. If other people to not conform to these conventions, even if I do not see them, and even if it is already somewhat allowed, it risks ruining the immersive experience that I personally have in this in game world."

Two view points. Two preferences. Both I respect. However both these viewpoints, and all other viewpoints in-between, are all primarily based on one's personal desires for their own in game experience. The problem that I have with a certain perspective of a certain viewpoint is that it basically boils down to not wanting other players to have fun because it risks ruining a certain own perception of fun and immersion. Therefore they would rather restrictions be imposed on what other players can do, which happens to be a purely aesthetic sense, to preserve their own sense of their own personal in game experience.

What's even more puzzling is that the game already has avenues in place, for everyone to "express themselves," in ways that puts that viewpoints in game experience at risk. We have Augmented AF, which can be dyed a different color than the original. We have all kinds of glamour gear where people can dress themselves in a purely ridiculous manner. If people want to play with no visible armor at all, there's that option as well. We even have class specific gear that already contradicts the classic aesthetic definition of the classic stereotypes of that particular role.

Oh, and just so we're clear, 10% selfish is still selfish. I don't see what one person chooses to do in this game affects anyone else's experience at all. Of all the things that could and should be changed, improved and/or preserved in this game, I really don't see how allowing people to dress how they like, especially if they went to the effort to earn those gear pieces, as that much of a problem. Of course, that's just my opinion.

[Miste]

What's even more puzzling is that the game already has avenues in place, for everyone to "express themselves," in ways that puts that viewpoints in game experience at risk. We have Augmented AF, which can be dyed a different color than the original. We have all kinds of glamour gear where people can dress themselves in a purely ridiculous manner. If people want to play with no visible armor at all, there's that option as well. We even have class specific gear that already contradicts the classic aesthetic definition of the classic stereotypes of that particular role.

I believe this is one of the reasons why some people want to keep the job locked gear restricted. Since SE has made other concessions that puts that viewpoint at risk, as you said, and they wish to at least keep some things intact. So I don't see it as very puzzling seems kind of a natural response since they see lore taking a back seat more and more often when it comes to gear. You get worried where they are going to stop so you post your disagreement to this thread's idea in order to make sure SE sees that some people want to keep some traditions.

Oh, and just so we're clear, 10% selfish is still selfish.

Well this is why I said most people, I hope, try not to be selfish even if it is something humans suffer from a lot. What does calling both sides selfish actually accomplish though? To me it doesn't seem to add to the discussion at all. Which is why I asked you why you felt the need to make the blanket statement you made.

Not everyone only thinks about their own personal experience no matter how much you want to claim it. I personally care about what other people want in this game otherwise I would never have thought of a compromise in the first place. Why would I bother if I didn't care about what they want? Others on both sides have also done the same thing. Do they still only care about their own experiences? I don't think so.

Some people also care about the game image as well not only their personal desires. You can call the 10% compromise '10% selfish still' all you want it doesn't really mean anything to the discussion O.o It is just a compromise that I thought of. So I am not sure what kind of point you are trying to make.

I don't see what one person chooses to do in this game affects anyone else's experience at all. Of all the things that could and should be changed, improved and/or preserved in this game, I really don't see how allowing people to dress how they like, especially if they went to the effort to earn those gear pieces, as that much of a problem. Of course, that's just my opinion.

If we look back at something you said earlier...

People do play this game for a wide variety of reasons, and I feel that there should be more options implemented to cater those varying playstyles.

So we need to cater to a large variety of players yes? So...what about players who wish to keep some gear that follows tradition or lore because they like having something unique to wear on that job they love? Removing restrictions on all gear in the game does not cater to both player types. It caters to people who like to have all gear unrestricted while not catering to people who like having some traditional, restricted, and unique to the job gear. So only one side of the gear debate gets catered to with this solution.

So to me I am confused on how you really feel about this because some things you said seem to contradict others. If we put those two quotes together its like you are saying 'We have many different kinds of players and we need to cater to varying playstyles, but if I don't see it as a problem personally then it is okay to remove everything from one playstyle to cater to the other'?

If that is your opinion then that's fine, you're entitled to it. I just don't personally understand it.

[Niwashi]

Like only around 10% (max, and probably being generous) of the gear in the game is job locked to one job only. I personally already compromised my stance where you guys can have that 90% of the gear how you want it: no glamour restrictions, but leave that 10% job locked gear restricted since it is part of the FF franchise image to be designed and locked for those jobs.

It's more like 5% or 6% of the gear. The Eorzea Database lists 4521 pieces of gear in the head, body, hands, legs, and feet categories. AF is 5 pieces for each of 3 sets for each of 13 jobs and is it 1 or 2 sets for DoH/DoL classes? Anyway, either 250 or 305 pieces out of 4521.

I think it's perfectly fair to reserve that 5 or 6 percent to be restricted when we're advocating that the other 94-95 percent should be opened up to everyone.