Have we moved to an age where taking hate as a dps = bad dps instead of bad tank?

[Lambdafish]

And if you don't have the other jumps ready you have to run forward again. We could discuss over that for a long time and if you really compare that to quelling on blm we could also start to discuss why a tank should start tanking in tank stance anyway because its a huge dps loss but we all know the answer to that so its useless to discuss that.

So plan better and use elusive jump when you have other jumps available. In this case it is the tanks fault, I think most people can agree on that, but the topic has moved forward into standard practice, and standard practice is that everyone is accountable for their own skill management. In any given scenario there could be any number of factors contributing to the problem, for example, I had issues in A5S to begin with because both me and my BLM hadn't concreted our openers for such a fast tank swap, once we talked and figured it out, we both improved.

[Kahnom]

I play monk.
I rip Aggro.
I'm dead.
Healer blames tank.
I'm happy.

[Ilan]

So plan better and use elusive jump when you have other jumps available. In this case it is the tanks fault, I think most people can agree on that, but the topic has moved forward into standard practice, and standard practice is that everyone is accountable for their own skill management. In any given scenario there could be any number of factors contributing to the problem, for example, I had issues in A5S to begin with because both me and my BLM hadn't concreted our openers for such a fast tank swap, once we talked and figured it out, we both improved.

Of cause it is the tanks fault if he loses hate when he starts tanking without tank stance. Thats why i said we don't have to discuss that. Doing things with your static is also a different thing since you can talk with each other, test things and people listen and answer. DF is a "zone" where you have to use your emnity reducing skills if you are a dps or a healer because you never know the tanks. I see it myself pretty often that you have some dps in a group who are never using quelling strikes and it annoys me when i'm the tank because it makes me stay in my damn tank stance since i could lose hate to this dps even if the rest hits like a wet noodle. That makes the runs longer than necessary.

[randysquirrel]

DF is a "zone" where you have to use your emnity reducing skills

9 times out of 10 in df, the tank will start running to boss, ill pop QS and begin casting my fire1. then tank suddenly stops. I cancel cast. they stand still for no reason. QS drops off. then we begin and I rip aggro

always entertaining

[Ageofwar]

So I've had multiple instances where I've seen dps getting told off for taking hate instead of the tank getting told off for losing hate.

I was in A12 as BLM and I was about to take hate off the DRK tanking without grit. So I said "put tank stance on pls". Then the party jumped on me saying "you use quelling strikes".

Then a similar thing happened when I was in a dungeon, a ninja took hate off the PLD (again who was in sword oath), and died, he complained at the tank to keep hate and got berated for not learning to use shadewalker.

So is this a thing now? Is it the dps's fault if the tank loses hate?

I'm also a BLM where I have still taken hate off a tank even after I have used Quelling Strikes.

Quelling Strikes will only work if the tank is trying to gain hate while you are trying to loose it.

so in short I would have to agree with you here

[Lyth]

It depends.

When playing easier content, there's a lot of room for cross-compensation. Used Blood For Blood during an AoE heavy section of the fight? No problem. You cost the healer CS uptime, but they can compensate. Couldn't be bothered to put QS on your hotbars? No problem. You forced an unnecessary PS combo, but the tank can compensate. Support roles are there to pick up your slack, and if sacrificing dps means ensuring a clear, we'll do it. There's also a lot of gear variability at this level of play, so sometimes your tank and healers have to work harder, depending on the group.

If you're doing more challenging content, you can't cross-compensate. So when you die to an AoE because you didn't click off Blood For Blood and blame the healer, the group has to replace you with someone who isn't a liability. If you couldn't be bothered to use QS, the group has to find a replacement who is willing to use all of their job skills to maximise raid dps, not just personal dps. Your MT is likely outputting 75% of any individual DPS player's total, and the opener is where the most buff synergy happens. QS is not optional. Shadewalker is not optional.

But this isn't even the most important issue. Different people have different views on what "about to take hate" involves. When you optimise DRK, you are often riding on a sliver of enmity. Your sense of your safety margin is something that you develop with a lot of practice, using your specific gear set. Even as a DRK main, I wouldn't presume to tell another DRK where they should or shouldn't expand their enmity lead. OP didn't get flak for misunderstanding the importance of enmity reduction moves. They received it for backseat tanking and providing unsolicited advice on a subject where they were clearly out of their depth.

[Jandor]

The goal is for the whole party to have the highest DPS possible. Quelling DPS + DPS stance tank is higher than no quelling + tank stance tank, so that's the route that should be taken whenever it's doable.

Tank should 'enmity up' as required and everyone else should 'enmity down' when needed.

[Maero]

If i use quelling and still get agro, i am sorry but that would be tank. And this does happen when i play blm that i get agro, not all the time of course.
So sometimes i even switch targets, and then get agro on those, so it goes to show the tank is not rotating between enemies or using aoe abilities to get hate
While going as Ninja and i know i am with a blm (or another job that i observe is grabbing agro) i will use smokescreen on them before attacks and use shadewalker to be sure i myself am not getting agro

[Ilan]

If i use quelling and still get agro, i am sorry but that would be tank. And this does happen when i play blm that i get agro, not all the time of course.
So sometimes i even switch targets, and then get agro on those, so it goes to show the tank is not rotating between enemies or using aoe abilities to get hate
While going as Ninja and i know i am with a blm (or another job that i observe is grabbing agro) i will use smokescreen on them before attacks and use shadewalker to be sure i myself am not getting agro

Yes thats obviously the tanks fault.

9 times out of 10 in df, the tank will start running to boss, ill pop QS and begin casting my fire1. then tank suddenly stops. I cancel cast. they stand still for no reason. QS drops off. then we begin and I rip aggro

always entertaining

Well that would be a new experience for me.

[Daniolaut]

So is this a thing now? Is it the dps's fault if the tank loses hate?

The issue really is the game is also so heavily focused on dps that nothing else matters.

As a result If the tank has to go into tank stance because you wont use quelling / shade. "OMG dps loss...."

Perform mechanic A, B, C, and DPS HARD!

Turn on your twitch and chat away, plug in your parsers, post on FFlogs those numbers. Dont forget your music library playing in the background!

Theorycraft on google docs, while you sit in party finder to replace that under-performing monk!

Such a fun and engaging "Final Fantasy" experience!