Have we moved to an age where taking hate as a dps = bad dps instead of bad tank?

[ValentineSnow]

So I've had multiple instances where I've seen dps getting told off for taking hate instead of the tank getting told off for losing hate.

I was in A12 as BLM and I was about to take hate off the DRK tanking without grit. So I said "put tank stance on pls". Then the party jumped on me saying "you use quelling strikes".

Then a similar thing happened when I was in a dungeon, a ninja took hate off the PLD (again who was in sword oath), and died, he complained at the tank to keep hate and got berated for not learning to use shadewalker.

So is this a thing now? Is it the dps's fault if the tank loses hate?

[Dzian]

The point is valid if you could have used quelling strikes /shade walker to reduce your hate and for some reason didn't.

Which is something I know a lot of dps don't do. Because there seems to be a common belief that if they use quelling strikes /shade walker and end up 5th in the enmity list then people assume there dps is terrible and thus seems a lot of players never use them because being number 2 apparantly means "best dps".

The issue really is the game is also so heavily focused on dps that nothing else matters.
As a result If the tank has to go into tank stance because you wont use quelling / shade. "OMG dps loss...." this party is terrible.
If a ninja can just shadewalker the tank instead. or the blm uses quelling strikes then the tank can stay in dps and Woot! No DPS loss and everyone's happy

[Jim_Berry]

The point is valid if you could have used quelling strikes /shade walker to reduce your hate and for some reason didn't.

Which is something I know a lot of dps don't do. Because there seems to be a common belief that if they use quelling strikes /shade walker and end up 5th in the enmity list then people assume there dps is terrible and thus seems a lot of players never use them because being number 2 apparantly means "best dps".

The issue really is the game is also so heavily focused on dps that nothing else matters.
As a result If the tank has to go into tank stance because you wont use quelling / shade. "OMG dps loss...." this party is terrible.
If a ninja can just shadewalker the tank instead. or the blm uses quelling strikes then the tank can stay in dps and Woot! No DPS loss and everyone's happy

OMG..... Thank you for saying this!!!!!!

[chocopoko]

yep. it's pretty useful to look at your tank's items to check if you'd need to pop the reduce aggro skills before starting the fight. that and having the awareness of aggro meter in the party info

[Ilan]

yep. it's pretty useful to look at your tank's items to check if you'd need to pop the reduce aggro skills before starting the fight. that and having the awareness of aggro meter in the party info

No during your opener you use your emnity reducing skills and usualy during the fight too if the fight takes a while and the cd is back up no matter how good the tank is geared.

[Shamox]

Well, there's a lot of case where I'm forced to use my elusive jump as a DRG when I shouldn't even need to do it.
If the tank is bad or unstuff (or anything else) and you have a spell that can help then you should use it.

A sad think actually is that ppl often butthurt when you try to highlight something they might be doing wrong while they should take it in a good way and at least try to improve.

[Jim_Berry]

Well, there's a lot of case where I'm forced to use my elusive jump as a DRG when I shouldn't even need to do it.
If the tank is bad or unstuff (or anything else) and you have a spell that can help then you should use it.

A sad think actually is that ppl often butthurt when you try to highlight something they might be doing wrong while they should take it in a good way and at least try to improve.

Depends! Let's take me for example:

I was NIN main since it released. I never looked at guides or anything. Learned off trial and error. As a PLD and DRK, I went the extra mile of learning the jobs each level. My NIN is bad because of my lack of learning it the correct way. When people use to say how bad my NIN is, yes, I was bothered because I thought I had learned it well. If people say something about my tanks, I take it as positive feedback based on what was said.

If someone was to say, "Your tank is shit if you can't hold hate without Tank Stance.", I shrug it off and stay in Tank Stance just to annoy them. If someone was to say, "Do you know you can do a bit more dps without Tank Stance?", I'll just show them that I can and go DPS Stance.

At the end of the day, I don't need to prove anything to anyone other than my Raid group.

[Krindor]

Depending on class, the fault can lie with you. Quelling strikes, shade walker and smokescreen doesn't harm your DPS in any significant way so use them if needed. Dragoons elusive jump is different as using it disengages you and you might have needed it later on to quickly get back resulting in a significant DPS loss.

If the tank loses aggro even though Shade, SS or quelling was used the fault lies with them as their main job is to keep aggro and DPS is second.

[Spartan926]

Speaking from mostly the opposite perspective it does fall to the Tank to make sure they are keeping up on the enmity combo's, that being said there is a heavy stance within the tanking forums that you shouldn't be in tank stance if you can avoid it to do more DPS (at least as a warrior this seems to be the trend). As for your experience with the DRK there's no excuse for not using grit that I can think of. The stance doesn't cost anything to use and the dps stance consumes mana at a regular rate, so being out of Grit serves no purpose.

I think the bigger issue here might be communication between parties, I don't know if you're running with the same people every time or different groups at different times. If the latter than I'd say don't worry to much about it, it sounds like the Tank forgot to do something. If it's the same groups every time I'd say maybe try talking more with them about what you expect from them? Maybe that way instead of the party being concerned about lost dps you can all focus on how to improve it across the raid, after all Utility and helping your fellow party members has to count for something?

P.S. Not a full time raider, so take this for what you will.

[MPNZ]

Speaking from mostly the opposite perspective it does fall to the Tank to make sure they are keeping up on the enmity combo's, that being said there is a heavy stance within the tanking forums that you shouldn't be in tank stance if you can avoid it to do more DPS (at least as a warrior this seems to be the trend).

Ew, it really drives me nuts whenever I see tanks not using their stances during dungeons, which is something I rarely see. But, almost everything since 3.0 has been seriously messy.