Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

[Brian_]

Problem is, normally, you should learn how to properly use your CD for maximum efficiency before learning when you can drop your stance. And once you master that, suddenly, dropping your stance has no effect on that. By the way you say it, it seems you're doing it the opposite. Is that really how progression work in Savage ?

I said that I started in Defiance when learning the fight and then after figuring out exactly how much eHP I needed and when, I restructured my CD rotation. So, in other words, in order to optimize for DPS, you really need to understand mitigation on a very precise and detailed level.

That's opposed to your mentality where you just turtle it up, never really have your ability to tank tested at all because you rely on your surplus of mitigation. You never have to refine your understanding of mitigation or really test your ability to structure an optimized CD rotation.

In one scenario, tanks are pushed to really excel in terms of their ability to understand mitigation and survive. In the other scenario, they are not. When and if you release content that truly pushes the tanks in terms of their skill at surviving, one will adjust just fine because they are already used to pinpoint CD usage and precise mitigation. The other will flounder once they no longer have a surplus of mitigation to mask their inefficiencies.

Thanks for the number.
For easy calculation, I will average everything so DPS are at 2200, turtle-tank at 1050 and DPS-tank at 1550. I won't count DPS from healers in the mix, since it would only lowers tank DPS proportion in the end.

So, with 4 DPS, a full OT and a full MT, you end with 11400 DPS (2200*4+1550+1050). The turtle tank counts for just above 9% of the total DPS. The higher dps stance uptime, the higher this number will mean, to a maximum of...13% with 100% DPS stance uptime. Even if I take the lowest turtle number (1000) and the highest DPS-tank number (1700), we'd go from 8% to 14%.

So, in the end, people are harshly rejecting "less optimal" tanks for, at worst, 4% lower performance of the whole group (Again, not counting healer's DPS). Disproportionate retribution, isn't it ? And since someone compared damage dealt and damage taken, I wonder if the overall damage taken increase isn't actually higher than 4% if your tank stays out of tank stance all the time. And I think it probably has less impact that the actual job you take (i.e having a turtle DRK instead of a turtle PLD has more effect than having a turtle PLD instead of a dancing PLD...)

A lot of the harsher criticisms are not based on the standards I used for those numbers. For tank DPS, I took a tank who was capable of pushing the upper end of that DPS spectrum and just estimated how much DPS they would have if you told them to stay in tank-stance.

You asked for how much DPS they should be doing by proper standards. Tanks with misconceptions about DPS and tank-stance will parse way below the number I gave you because they don't meet those standards. If I were to base my estimate on my experiences with tanks that stayed in tank-stance because they didn't know better or couldn't manage otherwise, that number would probably be 500-800.