Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

[Reynhart]

The full context of that answer which you conveniently ignored is that I said I used my CD because I might as well. There is nothing else to use those CDs on for a full recast. I don't use them because the content checks to see if I know how to.

Problem is, normally, you should learn how to properly use your CD for maximum efficiency before learning when you can drop your stance. And once you master that, suddenly, dropping your stance has no effect on that. By the way you say it, it seems you're doing it the opposite. Is that really how progression work in Savage ?

Discounting AoE DPS padding, average DPS between melee, ranged, and casters in a live fight, should be somewhere around ~2100-2300 at ~i260-270 with high up-time. Under similar conditions, tank DPS should be around ~1000-1100 with 100% tank-stance and ~1400-1700 with 100% DPS-stance.

Thanks for the number.
For easy calculation, I will average everything so DPS are at 2200, turtle-tank at 1050 and DPS-tank at 1550. I won't count DPS from healers in the mix, since it would only lowers tank DPS proportion in the end.

So, with 4 DPS, a full OT and a full MT, you end with 11400 DPS (2200*4+1550+1050). The turtle tank counts for just above 9% of the total DPS. The higher dps stance uptime, the higher this number will mean, to a maximum of...13% with 100% DPS stance uptime. Even if I take the lowest turtle number (1000) and the highest DPS-tank number (1700), we'd go from 8% to 14%.

So, in the end, people are harshly rejecting "less optimal" tanks for, at worst, 4% lower performance of the whole group (Again, not counting healer's DPS). Disproportionate retribution, isn't it ? And since someone compared damage dealt and damage taken, I wonder if the overall damage taken increase isn't actually higher than 4% if your tank stays out of tank stance all the time. And I think it probably has less impact that the actual job you take (i.e having a turtle DRK instead of a turtle PLD has more effect than having a turtle PLD instead of a dancing PLD...)

If you want a challenge, and you want to push yourself, the option is there.

Yes, but I still feel that the challenge only really pushes DPS optimization (Even is you say that surviving is harder as a consequence) . That's why I'd like to have a tank with highest but less on-demand mitigation so that you could meaningfully push it in that direction.