Tank in the making

[Awful]

The thread is starting to sound like you just wanted affirmation that DRK is the best tank, the other tanks suck and you wanted justifications for it

No he's doing research it sounds like you're throwing everything you love in a warrior and pushed it on Kaptin, he then said thank you for it and stated that he's still undecided. The thread is about collecting all data and play style views so that Kaptin can attribute to what he wants in a tank. We have war mains in here, Drk mains and Pld mains and all 3 are viable and have their uses but as we're mains of that class we all have things that we love that stand out to us that is what OP is trying to decide here.

Lyth covered great views on these classes of both war and drk that there is the great knowledge to have in that big paragraph study it, keep it in the back of your mind because they're bang on.

[DestroyerOfLargePlanets]

WAR has a strong mitigation kit with relatively short recasts on its defensive abilities. The flipside is that WAR starts to hemorrhage dps if you put sustained pressure on them, forcing them to become more reliant on Defiance and Inner Beast. Survivability is not an issue for any tank, but different tanks are better suited offensively to tank certain parts of a given fight.

^This. Surviving is definitely not an issue for a WAR (they basically have unlimited defensive cooldowns due to Inner Beast). However, the fact that WAR can deal insane amounts of damage as a tank -- compared to the other tanks -- makes it almost mandatory that a WAR fills the off-tank role rather than the main-tank role in most fights. When a WAR goes main-tank (MT), it's generally considered to be a significant loss of potential DPS, since WAR must use Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave sometimes in order to mitigate huge tank busters. Of course, the mechanics and mechanic timings of a fight can potentially make the main-tank role more favorable in terms of DPS for a WAR than the off-tank (OT) role. ie: A WAR may get more DPS uptime as MT, whereas the OT role in a fight may be more mechanic-focused with less DPS uptime. DPS uptime is a major factor.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but if you're the type of tank who likes to maximize your DPS, then WAR is probably the most complex. In other words, (IMO) it's harder to maximize your DPS as a WAR in Savage than it is to maximize your DPS as a DRK in Savage. That is because WAR must make sure to use Berserk as much as possible. Not only that, but you can't just be popping Berserk just when it's up -- you have to use it when it's MOST effective. Often you're going to have to plan ahead to figure out how and when to use Berserk. Is it better to open up with triple fell cleave (500 potency * 3) on the boss as soon as the fight starts, or is it worth it to wait 60 seconds to get a double or triple berserked decimate on that group of 7 adds (280 potency * 7 * 3) that show up 60 seconds into the fight? Is it still worth it if you had to hold berserk for 90 seconds? For 120 seconds? How about if there were only 3 adds? At what point would it NOT be worth it?

For DRK, you don't really have to think about it as much. You just keep your DoTs up (Salted Earth, Scourge) as much as possible and stay out of Grit as long as possible. Use Blood Weapon, Dark Arts > Carve and Spit as often as you can while out of Grit and pop them abilities (Dark Passenger, Low Blow, Plunge, Reprisal) as much as you can. DRK is not reliant on huge damage spikes, so it's not necessary for a DRK to plan out an optimal DPS "plan". If anything, a DRK will be on MT duty so he'll have to plan out when he'll have to go back into Grit and how he'll use his defensive cooldowns. DPS-wise a DRK is much more simple.

[gastovski]

Hey, new player here. I'm close to unlocking DK and i'm bored with Bard a bit. Is there any good guide for newbie like me, completely explains how DK should play in dungeons, skills and raids. Full detailed guide would be great, thanks.

[Lyth]

Not only that, but you can't just be popping Berserk just when it's up -- you have to use it when it's MOST effective. Often you're going to have to plan ahead to figure out how and when to use Berserk. Is it better to open up with triple fell cleave (500 potency * 3) on the boss as soon as the fight starts, or is it worth it to wait 60 seconds to get a double or triple berserked decimate on that group of 7 adds (280 potency * 7 * 3) that show up 60 seconds into the fight? Is it still worth it if you had to hold berserk for 90 seconds? For 120 seconds? How about if there were only 3 adds? At what point would it NOT be worth it?

It is always wasteful to hold on to a cooldown for longer than its recast. This is true for both defensive and offensive cooldowns. In the case of Berserk, you shouldn't be holding on to it for more than 90 seconds. If you want to check, your total number of Berserk uses should equal the total fight duration divided by its recast.

People seem to get hung up on FoF and Berserk windows when in reality, it's not all that different from the way you map out your defensives. So the timing didn't work out on your very first run. Just... adjust it? It's trial and error. This isn't astrophysics. Most dps work with more complex offensive cooldown rotations once they pass about level 30.

WAR in a nutshell:
1) Don't drop Maim/SE
2) Fit as many FCs/Decis into each pot/Berserk as you can
3) Maximise deliverance uptime

You can fine tune it past that, but most people struggle with the basics.

[Deathgiver]

Hey, new player here. I'm close to unlocking DK and i'm bored with Bard a bit. Is there any good guide for newbie like me, completely explains how DK should play in dungeons, skills and raids. Full detailed guide would be great, thanks.

Before you go running off to be a drk, you should go level gld to 22 for provoke at the very least (provoke is a must-have for any tank class), and you'll eventually want mrd to 26 for mercy stroke. While boring, learning the basics of tanking on a sub 30 class will help when you level drk.

[gastovski]

Before you go running off to be a drk, you should go level gld to 22 for provoke at the very least (provoke is a must-have for any tank class), and you'll eventually want mrd to 26 for mercy stroke. While boring, learning the basics of tanking on a sub 30 class will help when you level drk.

I just went to ishgard first time then started as gladiator. That is exactly what will i do but getting mercy stroke could be challenging and pretty boring for me.

[Fluffernuff]

I just went to ishgard first time then started as gladiator. That is exactly what will i do but getting mercy stroke could be challenging and pretty boring for me.

Hmm... Mercy Stroke I would say is more personal preference. while 200 potency is nice, I feel it's just not as "used" as something like Bloodbath, Convalescence, or even Foresight. I would consider holding off on Mercy Stroke if MRD is just that terrible to play for you- though level 8 for Bloodbath is very much useful to DRK (just... don't use it with Unleash. Unleash doesn't work with Bloodbath). you can work on level 26 later- it will also be easier and likely less boring once you understand the role better.

I would also point out that, While required for raiding/trial mechanics, Provoke is on a 40 second cooldown. It's main use in the learning process/in standard dungeons is to snap-aggro from a DPS or ranged- followed by a Shield lob or other aggro booster. It's nice to have in your back-pocket while learning, but don't feel TOO pressured to have it early on. Get it eventually(since it IS required later), but try not to rely on it while you're learning. It's also not your ranged pull. It's cooldown coupled with it's actual mechanics make it a very, very poor choice as an initiation tool

[DestroyerOfLargePlanets]

It is always wasteful to hold on to a cooldown for longer than its recast.

Oh yeah, you're right lol. I just wanted to exaggerate the point to make it clear but ended up using larger numbers than the recast time. RIP. Nevertheless, you can't just be popping Berserk when it's up so your total number of Berserk uses wouldn't necessarily equal the (total fight duration) / (berserk recast).

[Pixelmancer]

Race really doesn't make any difference whatsoever. All race does is give you like a 3 to 5 point or so difference in starting stats. I'm an item level 234 white mage and I have over 1200 mind. I'm absolutely not missing the 4 extra mind I'd have got from going Keeper of the Moon instead of Seeker of the Sun. Once you get past the really low levels race is purely cosmetic. It's a necessary evil in a game where you can switch classes any time you want.