Tank in the making

[Blim]

I've played both WAR and DRK and to me, WAR beats DRK in terms of interactivity and fun. I was really enthusiastic about DRK for a while, but it soon got boring for me compared to WAR. (At least to me, that's how it felt).

Reason why I prefer WAR.

1. Ability to animation cancel alot of my attacks (DRK lacks this ability)
2. Mitigation and healing on demand for WAR (inner beasts/fell cleaves)
3. DRK attacks just look flashy to me but in terms of the visceral feel of raw power, doesn't compare to a WAR
4. Off GCD stance swaps for WAR (allows for alot stance dancing)
5. Able to cycle though defensive cooldowns (almst permanently) as a WAR if you know how to time your attacks, inner beasts and CDs
6. Alot more engaging because you literally need to KNOW the fight inside and out as well as group DPS to maximize the use of your inner beasts, CDs, bserserk combos lest you run out of time or enter phase transitions earlier than anticipated
7. High level of survivability for WAR
8. Fantastic aggro generation if you know how to pair up a variety of skills together
9. Mobility? Not an issue (if you're just comparing plunge, I think that's a wrong view to take. Plunge isn't a mobility skill although that's what people think it is. It is the DRK's form of anti-knockback just as WAR has Holmgang)

[Kaptin_Bluddflagg]

I've played both WAR and DRK and to me, WAR beats DRK in terms of interactivity and fun. I was really enthusiastic about DRK for a while, but it soon got boring for me compared to WAR. (At least to me, that's how it felt).

Reason why I prefer WAR.

1. Ability to animation cancel alot of my attacks (DRK lacks this ability)
2. Mitigation and healing on demand for WAR (inner beasts/fell cleaves)
3. DRK attacks just look flashy to me but in terms of the visceral feel of raw power, doesn't compare to a WAR
4. Off GCD stance swaps for WAR (allows for alot stance dancing)
5. Able to cycle though defensive cooldowns (almst permanently) as a WAR if you know how to time your attacks, inner beasts and CDs
6. Alot more engaging because you literally need to KNOW the fight inside and out as well as group DPS to maximize the use of your inner beasts, CDs, bserserk combos lest you run out of time or enter phase transitions earlier than anticipated
7. High level of survivability for WAR
8. Fantastic aggro generation if you know how to pair up a variety of skills together
9. Mobility? Not an issue (if you're just comparing plunge, I think that's a wrong view to take. Plunge isn't a mobility skill although that's what people think it is. It is the DRK's form of anti-knockback just as WAR has Holmgang)

Thanks! I see your point, however, after having played warrior and watched a lot of vids/guides/replays about him, I still remain somewhat unconvinced.
What's this animation cancel you're talking about? I may have experienced it, but could you clarify with an example, please?

[Lyth]

Animation cancelling refers to the fact that when you weave an oGCD immediately following a GCD ability with a long animation, the floating combat text (with the damage numbers/debuffs) appears more quickly, rather than at the end of the animation. It's not unique to WAR at all; it was incidentally first taught in BLM circles as the ancient ritual of fireweaving, to check for firestarter procs.

It gained some interest amongst tanks during the final raid tier of A Realm Reborn, when 'snap aggro generation' became a popular subject of discussion, especially as a WAR offtank picking up adds (phase 2 of t13). The third hit of every tank's enmity combo (Rage of Halone/Butcher's Block/Power Slash) has a relatively long animation, with the damage/enmity only occurring at the end. You may have noticed this if you use RoH/BB/PS on a mob just as you lose aggro on it: it wanders off, the animation finishes, and then it wanders back.

The idea at the time was that if you used an oGCD (i.e. Brutal Swing) immediately following BB, the damage/enmity from BB would activate faster, allowing you to secure aggro more quickly, because the damage numbers seemed to be appearing more quickly. The original author of this claim later retracted it after additional testing.

WAR has a strong mitigation kit with relatively short recasts on its defensive abilities. The flipside is that WAR starts to hemorrhage dps if you put sustained pressure on them, forcing them to become more reliant on Defiance and Inner Beast. Survivability is not an issue for any tank, but different tanks are better suited offensively to tank certain parts of a given fight.

IB's function is a bit odd. With 2.1, it was supposed to be WAR's answer to Rampart. It's availability, however, meant that you could mitigate every significant hit with IB, on top of your other major cooldowns. It's significantly easier to time than Rampart and Shadowskin on single hit tankbusters, as you're often aiming to activate these skills much further in advance than you would IB (i.e. 18-19 seconds in advance instead of 4-5 seconds) in order to cut back on the recast time. HW somewhat addressed this by making Defiance and IB less desirable, through Deliverance and Fell Cleave respectively. RI is functionally more similar to Rampart, with IB now functioning more along the lines of the other tanks' short recast cooldowns (Sheltron/Dark Mind).

DRK isn't about brute force. WAR's attacks are built around big, weighty hits that do large amounts of damage. DRK is about speed and finesse. Between the haste boost of Blood Weapon and the oGCDs, you're forced to quickly prioritise and map out your next actions much further in advance. You have the potential to play at a higher rate of actions per minute than even some melee dps jobs, let alone your co-tanks.

It is extremely rewarding if you enjoy the tactical side of tanking. You'll find yourself asking questions like "Can I position these two mobs close enough that I can hit both of them with Salted Earth, but far enough away from each other that they don't tether?" or "Can I help AoE down that cluster of mobs while tanking the boss in another corner of the room?" or "What sorts of distant destructible objects can I get Soul Survivor procs off of today?"

Gap closers are knockback negation tools, but they're still also gap closers. They increase your melee uptime. The simplest example of this is where you're forced away from a mob because of a point-blank AoE or distance-based mechanic, and you flip back instantly when the game snapshots your position to determine whether you take the hit. There are plenty of places, especially this raid tier, where this can let you squeeze in an extra GCD or two.

Remember, everyone expects WAR to do more damage, partially by reputation and partially because they're designed to at baseline. You gotta play smart if you want to close the gap.

[Kaptin_Bluddflagg]

Animation cancelling refers to the fact that when you weave an oGCD immediately following a GCD ability with a long animation, the floating combat text (with the damage numbers/debuffs) appears more quickly, rather than at the end of the animation. It's not unique to WAR at all; it was incidentally first taught in BLM circles as the ancient ritual of fireweaving, to check for firestarter procs.

It gained some interest amongst tanks during the final raid tier of A Realm Reborn, when 'snap aggro generation' became a popular subject of discussion, especially as a WAR offtank picking up adds (phase 2 of t13). The third hit of every tank's enmity combo (Rage of Halone/Butcher's Block/Power Slash) has a relatively long animation, with the damage/enmity only occurring at the end. You may have noticed this if you use RoH/BB/PS on a mob just as you lose aggro on it: it wanders off, the animation finishes, and then it wanders back.

The idea at the time was that if you used an oGCD (i.e. Brutal Swing) immediately following BB, the damage/enmity from BB would activate faster, allowing you to secure aggro more quickly, because the damage numbers seemed to be appearing more quickly. The original author of this claim later retracted it after additional testing.

WAR has a strong mitigation kit with relatively short recasts on its defensive abilities. The flipside is that WAR starts to hemorrhage dps if you put sustained pressure on them, forcing them to become more reliant on Defiance and Inner Beast. Survivability is not an issue for any tank, but different tanks are better suited offensively to tank certain parts of a given fight.

IB's function is a bit odd. With 2.1, it was supposed to be WAR's answer to Rampart. It's availability, however, meant that you could mitigate every significant hit with IB, on top of your other major cooldowns. It's significantly easier to time than Rampart and Shadowskin on single hit tankbusters, as you're often aiming to activate these skills much further in advance than you would IB (i.e. 18-19 seconds in advance instead of 4-5 seconds) in order to cut back on the recast time. HW somewhat addressed this by making Defiance and IB less desirable, through Deliverance and Fell Cleave respectively. RI is functionally more similar to Rampart, with IB now functioning more along the lines of the other tanks' short recast cooldowns (Sheltron/Dark Mind).

DRK isn't about brute force. WAR's attacks are built around big, weighty hits that do large amounts of damage. DRK is about speed and finesse. Between the haste boost of Blood Weapon and the oGCDs, you're forced to quickly prioritise and map out your next actions much further in advance. You have the potential to play at a higher rate of actions per minute than even some melee dps jobs, let alone your co-tanks.

It is extremely rewarding if you enjoy the tactical side of tanking. You'll find yourself asking questions like "Can I position these two mobs close enough that I can hit both of them with Salted Earth, but far enough away from each other that they don't tether?" or "Can I help AoE down that cluster of mobs while tanking the boss in another corner of the room?" or "What sorts of distant destructible objects can I get Soul Survivor procs off of today?"

Gap closers are knockback negation tools, but they're still also gap closers. They increase your melee uptime. The simplest example of this is where you're forced away from a mob because of a point-blank AoE or distance-based mechanic, and you flip back instantly when the game snapshots your position to determine whether you take the hit. There are plenty of places, especially this raid tier, where this can let you squeeze in an extra GCD or two.

Remember, everyone expects WAR to do more damage, partially by reputation and partially because they're designed to at baseline. You gotta play smart if you want to close the gap.

This.
This is what I wanted to hear. Tactical choices and maneuvering above simple brute force and toughness.
Thanks a lot, mate.

[QuinRaines]

that's right. but WAR is considered to be the OT because WAR + WAR is not really a good combo and PLD and DRK are both better in the MT, than the OT spot ^^

I personally disagree about PLD, depending on the circumstances. Shield Oath is an absolute burden and hinders tank damage much more than Grit and Defiance do. While looking at damage ideals tanks should be stance dancing regardless, however I feel that PLD works better as an OT in a WAR/PLD comp.

Unchained opener into deliverance is much less lost dps than Shield Oath opener would bring.

Also, considering how often busters and other incoming damage is magic, PLDs block and half their defensive CDs become rendered useless. It all depends on the fight, a purely physical fight such as A7S PLD kicks ass in the MT spot. But in most other fights, in my opinion, it is a burden in that spot.

[Sweetgrass]

1)Warrior tanks. Boring.

Stopped reading there. It's widely regarded as the most solidly-designed and effective tank class in the game, where you got this from is very odd.

[Blim]

This.
This is what I wanted to hear. Tactical choices and maneuvering above simple brute force and toughness.
Thanks a lot, mate.

The thread is starting to sound like you just wanted affirmation that DRK is the best tank, the other tanks suck and you wanted justifications for it

[Kaptin_Bluddflagg]

Stopped reading there. It's widely regarded as the most solidly-designed and effective tank class in the game, where you got this from is very odd.

Good thing you did! Opinions differ.

[Kaptin_Bluddflagg]

The thread is starting to sound like you just wanted affirmation that DRK is the best tank, the other tanks suck and you wanted justifications for it

You sure? Because I'm not! I stated my preferences, got some answers and did some research. If there's a better option for my taste, I urge you to point the way.

[MerleSirlos]

The thread is starting to sound like you just wanted affirmation that DRK is the best tank, the other tanks suck and you wanted justifications for it

Not at all. Each tank has a different playstyle (while they have many similarities), the point was not to find which one is the best, but which one suits Kaptin_Bluddflagg's way of playing better.