Tank in the making

[Lyth]

Animation cancelling refers to the fact that when you weave an oGCD immediately following a GCD ability with a long animation, the floating combat text (with the damage numbers/debuffs) appears more quickly, rather than at the end of the animation. It's not unique to WAR at all; it was incidentally first taught in BLM circles as the ancient ritual of fireweaving, to check for firestarter procs.

It gained some interest amongst tanks during the final raid tier of A Realm Reborn, when 'snap aggro generation' became a popular subject of discussion, especially as a WAR offtank picking up adds (phase 2 of t13). The third hit of every tank's enmity combo (Rage of Halone/Butcher's Block/Power Slash) has a relatively long animation, with the damage/enmity only occurring at the end. You may have noticed this if you use RoH/BB/PS on a mob just as you lose aggro on it: it wanders off, the animation finishes, and then it wanders back.

The idea at the time was that if you used an oGCD (i.e. Brutal Swing) immediately following BB, the damage/enmity from BB would activate faster, allowing you to secure aggro more quickly, because the damage numbers seemed to be appearing more quickly. The original author of this claim later retracted it after additional testing.

WAR has a strong mitigation kit with relatively short recasts on its defensive abilities. The flipside is that WAR starts to hemorrhage dps if you put sustained pressure on them, forcing them to become more reliant on Defiance and Inner Beast. Survivability is not an issue for any tank, but different tanks are better suited offensively to tank certain parts of a given fight.

IB's function is a bit odd. With 2.1, it was supposed to be WAR's answer to Rampart. It's availability, however, meant that you could mitigate every significant hit with IB, on top of your other major cooldowns. It's significantly easier to time than Rampart and Shadowskin on single hit tankbusters, as you're often aiming to activate these skills much further in advance than you would IB (i.e. 18-19 seconds in advance instead of 4-5 seconds) in order to cut back on the recast time. HW somewhat addressed this by making Defiance and IB less desirable, through Deliverance and Fell Cleave respectively. RI is functionally more similar to Rampart, with IB now functioning more along the lines of the other tanks' short recast cooldowns (Sheltron/Dark Mind).

DRK isn't about brute force. WAR's attacks are built around big, weighty hits that do large amounts of damage. DRK is about speed and finesse. Between the haste boost of Blood Weapon and the oGCDs, you're forced to quickly prioritise and map out your next actions much further in advance. You have the potential to play at a higher rate of actions per minute than even some melee dps jobs, let alone your co-tanks.

It is extremely rewarding if you enjoy the tactical side of tanking. You'll find yourself asking questions like "Can I position these two mobs close enough that I can hit both of them with Salted Earth, but far enough away from each other that they don't tether?" or "Can I help AoE down that cluster of mobs while tanking the boss in another corner of the room?" or "What sorts of distant destructible objects can I get Soul Survivor procs off of today?"

Gap closers are knockback negation tools, but they're still also gap closers. They increase your melee uptime. The simplest example of this is where you're forced away from a mob because of a point-blank AoE or distance-based mechanic, and you flip back instantly when the game snapshots your position to determine whether you take the hit. There are plenty of places, especially this raid tier, where this can let you squeeze in an extra GCD or two.

Remember, everyone expects WAR to do more damage, partially by reputation and partially because they're designed to at baseline. You gotta play smart if you want to close the gap.

[Kaptin_Bluddflagg]

Animation cancelling refers to the fact that when you weave an oGCD immediately following a GCD ability with a long animation, the floating combat text (with the damage numbers/debuffs) appears more quickly, rather than at the end of the animation. It's not unique to WAR at all; it was incidentally first taught in BLM circles as the ancient ritual of fireweaving, to check for firestarter procs.

It gained some interest amongst tanks during the final raid tier of A Realm Reborn, when 'snap aggro generation' became a popular subject of discussion, especially as a WAR offtank picking up adds (phase 2 of t13). The third hit of every tank's enmity combo (Rage of Halone/Butcher's Block/Power Slash) has a relatively long animation, with the damage/enmity only occurring at the end. You may have noticed this if you use RoH/BB/PS on a mob just as you lose aggro on it: it wanders off, the animation finishes, and then it wanders back.

The idea at the time was that if you used an oGCD (i.e. Brutal Swing) immediately following BB, the damage/enmity from BB would activate faster, allowing you to secure aggro more quickly, because the damage numbers seemed to be appearing more quickly. The original author of this claim later retracted it after additional testing.

WAR has a strong mitigation kit with relatively short recasts on its defensive abilities. The flipside is that WAR starts to hemorrhage dps if you put sustained pressure on them, forcing them to become more reliant on Defiance and Inner Beast. Survivability is not an issue for any tank, but different tanks are better suited offensively to tank certain parts of a given fight.

IB's function is a bit odd. With 2.1, it was supposed to be WAR's answer to Rampart. It's availability, however, meant that you could mitigate every significant hit with IB, on top of your other major cooldowns. It's significantly easier to time than Rampart and Shadowskin on single hit tankbusters, as you're often aiming to activate these skills much further in advance than you would IB (i.e. 18-19 seconds in advance instead of 4-5 seconds) in order to cut back on the recast time. HW somewhat addressed this by making Defiance and IB less desirable, through Deliverance and Fell Cleave respectively. RI is functionally more similar to Rampart, with IB now functioning more along the lines of the other tanks' short recast cooldowns (Sheltron/Dark Mind).

DRK isn't about brute force. WAR's attacks are built around big, weighty hits that do large amounts of damage. DRK is about speed and finesse. Between the haste boost of Blood Weapon and the oGCDs, you're forced to quickly prioritise and map out your next actions much further in advance. You have the potential to play at a higher rate of actions per minute than even some melee dps jobs, let alone your co-tanks.

It is extremely rewarding if you enjoy the tactical side of tanking. You'll find yourself asking questions like "Can I position these two mobs close enough that I can hit both of them with Salted Earth, but far enough away from each other that they don't tether?" or "Can I help AoE down that cluster of mobs while tanking the boss in another corner of the room?" or "What sorts of distant destructible objects can I get Soul Survivor procs off of today?"

Gap closers are knockback negation tools, but they're still also gap closers. They increase your melee uptime. The simplest example of this is where you're forced away from a mob because of a point-blank AoE or distance-based mechanic, and you flip back instantly when the game snapshots your position to determine whether you take the hit. There are plenty of places, especially this raid tier, where this can let you squeeze in an extra GCD or two.

Remember, everyone expects WAR to do more damage, partially by reputation and partially because they're designed to at baseline. You gotta play smart if you want to close the gap.

This.
This is what I wanted to hear. Tactical choices and maneuvering above simple brute force and toughness.
Thanks a lot, mate.

[Blim]

This.
This is what I wanted to hear. Tactical choices and maneuvering above simple brute force and toughness.
Thanks a lot, mate.

The thread is starting to sound like you just wanted affirmation that DRK is the best tank, the other tanks suck and you wanted justifications for it

[Kaptin_Bluddflagg]

The thread is starting to sound like you just wanted affirmation that DRK is the best tank, the other tanks suck and you wanted justifications for it

You sure? Because I'm not! I stated my preferences, got some answers and did some research. If there's a better option for my taste, I urge you to point the way.

[MerleSirlos]

The thread is starting to sound like you just wanted affirmation that DRK is the best tank, the other tanks suck and you wanted justifications for it

Not at all. Each tank has a different playstyle (while they have many similarities), the point was not to find which one is the best, but which one suits Kaptin_Bluddflagg's way of playing better.

[Awful]

The thread is starting to sound like you just wanted affirmation that DRK is the best tank, the other tanks suck and you wanted justifications for it

No he's doing research it sounds like you're throwing everything you love in a warrior and pushed it on Kaptin, he then said thank you for it and stated that he's still undecided. The thread is about collecting all data and play style views so that Kaptin can attribute to what he wants in a tank. We have war mains in here, Drk mains and Pld mains and all 3 are viable and have their uses but as we're mains of that class we all have things that we love that stand out to us that is what OP is trying to decide here.

Lyth covered great views on these classes of both war and drk that there is the great knowledge to have in that big paragraph study it, keep it in the back of your mind because they're bang on.

[DestroyerOfLargePlanets]

WAR has a strong mitigation kit with relatively short recasts on its defensive abilities. The flipside is that WAR starts to hemorrhage dps if you put sustained pressure on them, forcing them to become more reliant on Defiance and Inner Beast. Survivability is not an issue for any tank, but different tanks are better suited offensively to tank certain parts of a given fight.

^This. Surviving is definitely not an issue for a WAR (they basically have unlimited defensive cooldowns due to Inner Beast). However, the fact that WAR can deal insane amounts of damage as a tank -- compared to the other tanks -- makes it almost mandatory that a WAR fills the off-tank role rather than the main-tank role in most fights. When a WAR goes main-tank (MT), it's generally considered to be a significant loss of potential DPS, since WAR must use Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave sometimes in order to mitigate huge tank busters. Of course, the mechanics and mechanic timings of a fight can potentially make the main-tank role more favorable in terms of DPS for a WAR than the off-tank (OT) role. ie: A WAR may get more DPS uptime as MT, whereas the OT role in a fight may be more mechanic-focused with less DPS uptime. DPS uptime is a major factor.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but if you're the type of tank who likes to maximize your DPS, then WAR is probably the most complex. In other words, (IMO) it's harder to maximize your DPS as a WAR in Savage than it is to maximize your DPS as a DRK in Savage. That is because WAR must make sure to use Berserk as much as possible. Not only that, but you can't just be popping Berserk just when it's up -- you have to use it when it's MOST effective. Often you're going to have to plan ahead to figure out how and when to use Berserk. Is it better to open up with triple fell cleave (500 potency * 3) on the boss as soon as the fight starts, or is it worth it to wait 60 seconds to get a double or triple berserked decimate on that group of 7 adds (280 potency * 7 * 3) that show up 60 seconds into the fight? Is it still worth it if you had to hold berserk for 90 seconds? For 120 seconds? How about if there were only 3 adds? At what point would it NOT be worth it?

For DRK, you don't really have to think about it as much. You just keep your DoTs up (Salted Earth, Scourge) as much as possible and stay out of Grit as long as possible. Use Blood Weapon, Dark Arts > Carve and Spit as often as you can while out of Grit and pop them abilities (Dark Passenger, Low Blow, Plunge, Reprisal) as much as you can. DRK is not reliant on huge damage spikes, so it's not necessary for a DRK to plan out an optimal DPS "plan". If anything, a DRK will be on MT duty so he'll have to plan out when he'll have to go back into Grit and how he'll use his defensive cooldowns. DPS-wise a DRK is much more simple.

[Lyth]

Not only that, but you can't just be popping Berserk just when it's up -- you have to use it when it's MOST effective. Often you're going to have to plan ahead to figure out how and when to use Berserk. Is it better to open up with triple fell cleave (500 potency * 3) on the boss as soon as the fight starts, or is it worth it to wait 60 seconds to get a double or triple berserked decimate on that group of 7 adds (280 potency * 7 * 3) that show up 60 seconds into the fight? Is it still worth it if you had to hold berserk for 90 seconds? For 120 seconds? How about if there were only 3 adds? At what point would it NOT be worth it?

It is always wasteful to hold on to a cooldown for longer than its recast. This is true for both defensive and offensive cooldowns. In the case of Berserk, you shouldn't be holding on to it for more than 90 seconds. If you want to check, your total number of Berserk uses should equal the total fight duration divided by its recast.

People seem to get hung up on FoF and Berserk windows when in reality, it's not all that different from the way you map out your defensives. So the timing didn't work out on your very first run. Just... adjust it? It's trial and error. This isn't astrophysics. Most dps work with more complex offensive cooldown rotations once they pass about level 30.

WAR in a nutshell:
1) Don't drop Maim/SE
2) Fit as many FCs/Decis into each pot/Berserk as you can
3) Maximise deliverance uptime

You can fine tune it past that, but most people struggle with the basics.

[DestroyerOfLargePlanets]

It is always wasteful to hold on to a cooldown for longer than its recast.

Oh yeah, you're right lol. I just wanted to exaggerate the point to make it clear but ended up using larger numbers than the recast time. RIP. Nevertheless, you can't just be popping Berserk when it's up so your total number of Berserk uses wouldn't necessarily equal the (total fight duration) / (berserk recast).