Tank in the making

[Awful]

Drk seems more of your play style it's really rewarding when you get everything going at 60 it's also the only tank with a gap closer which has saved my bacon in many EX trials like Sephirot and Sophia that have knock backs that can kill you instantly put you can plunge at the same time and time it just right. Everyone's already put in everything about Drk i'll just say from my own personal experience since I main it I love it and if you join the Drk family you won't go back unless you wanna try the rest of the tanks and compare em to Drk. The tank world is your oyster all tanks are viable in all content so get your hands dirty!

[Hierro]

I like how methodical WAR is. It's so easy! Unchained berserk opener, stay in deliverance, alternate BB and SE, only pop IR and infuriate when zerk comes up for double/triple fell cleaves, enjoy big dps every time. Use defensives as necessary, etc etc.

Though, it doesn't sound like you enjoy that kind of planning. However, when you get right down to it, the point of DRK is to play it in a very methodical way too. Everyone wants to pair dark passenger, scourge, and plunge together, and especially with C&S, since those are 30 second skills while the latter's a minute. People say it's chaotic, but that's because of the plethora of oGCDs and procs they have to take care of. Aside from that, you alternate blood weapon and price, and take care of your low blows and reprisals, and keep up salted earth. That's it! When you look at it piece by piece, the whole doesn't look so jumbled up anymore. Sure, it may seem chaotic, but it's not. Though, I do hope it's more up your cup of tea, OP. Either way, I have fun with both tanks.

[Kaptin_Bluddflagg]

All in all, thank you for your answers! I still have around 70 transition quests left to go... but after this BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! LET EORZEA BURN!!!111
Eh, just got carried away, sry. If anyone has more opinions, I'll be glad to hear them out!

[Blim]

I've played both WAR and DRK and to me, WAR beats DRK in terms of interactivity and fun. I was really enthusiastic about DRK for a while, but it soon got boring for me compared to WAR. (At least to me, that's how it felt).

Reason why I prefer WAR.

1. Ability to animation cancel alot of my attacks (DRK lacks this ability)
2. Mitigation and healing on demand for WAR (inner beasts/fell cleaves)
3. DRK attacks just look flashy to me but in terms of the visceral feel of raw power, doesn't compare to a WAR
4. Off GCD stance swaps for WAR (allows for alot stance dancing)
5. Able to cycle though defensive cooldowns (almst permanently) as a WAR if you know how to time your attacks, inner beasts and CDs
6. Alot more engaging because you literally need to KNOW the fight inside and out as well as group DPS to maximize the use of your inner beasts, CDs, bserserk combos lest you run out of time or enter phase transitions earlier than anticipated
7. High level of survivability for WAR
8. Fantastic aggro generation if you know how to pair up a variety of skills together
9. Mobility? Not an issue (if you're just comparing plunge, I think that's a wrong view to take. Plunge isn't a mobility skill although that's what people think it is. It is the DRK's form of anti-knockback just as WAR has Holmgang)

[Kaptin_Bluddflagg]

I've played both WAR and DRK and to me, WAR beats DRK in terms of interactivity and fun. I was really enthusiastic about DRK for a while, but it soon got boring for me compared to WAR. (At least to me, that's how it felt).

Reason why I prefer WAR.

1. Ability to animation cancel alot of my attacks (DRK lacks this ability)
2. Mitigation and healing on demand for WAR (inner beasts/fell cleaves)
3. DRK attacks just look flashy to me but in terms of the visceral feel of raw power, doesn't compare to a WAR
4. Off GCD stance swaps for WAR (allows for alot stance dancing)
5. Able to cycle though defensive cooldowns (almst permanently) as a WAR if you know how to time your attacks, inner beasts and CDs
6. Alot more engaging because you literally need to KNOW the fight inside and out as well as group DPS to maximize the use of your inner beasts, CDs, bserserk combos lest you run out of time or enter phase transitions earlier than anticipated
7. High level of survivability for WAR
8. Fantastic aggro generation if you know how to pair up a variety of skills together
9. Mobility? Not an issue (if you're just comparing plunge, I think that's a wrong view to take. Plunge isn't a mobility skill although that's what people think it is. It is the DRK's form of anti-knockback just as WAR has Holmgang)

Thanks! I see your point, however, after having played warrior and watched a lot of vids/guides/replays about him, I still remain somewhat unconvinced.
What's this animation cancel you're talking about? I may have experienced it, but could you clarify with an example, please?

[Lyth]

Animation cancelling refers to the fact that when you weave an oGCD immediately following a GCD ability with a long animation, the floating combat text (with the damage numbers/debuffs) appears more quickly, rather than at the end of the animation. It's not unique to WAR at all; it was incidentally first taught in BLM circles as the ancient ritual of fireweaving, to check for firestarter procs.

It gained some interest amongst tanks during the final raid tier of A Realm Reborn, when 'snap aggro generation' became a popular subject of discussion, especially as a WAR offtank picking up adds (phase 2 of t13). The third hit of every tank's enmity combo (Rage of Halone/Butcher's Block/Power Slash) has a relatively long animation, with the damage/enmity only occurring at the end. You may have noticed this if you use RoH/BB/PS on a mob just as you lose aggro on it: it wanders off, the animation finishes, and then it wanders back.

The idea at the time was that if you used an oGCD (i.e. Brutal Swing) immediately following BB, the damage/enmity from BB would activate faster, allowing you to secure aggro more quickly, because the damage numbers seemed to be appearing more quickly. The original author of this claim later retracted it after additional testing.

WAR has a strong mitigation kit with relatively short recasts on its defensive abilities. The flipside is that WAR starts to hemorrhage dps if you put sustained pressure on them, forcing them to become more reliant on Defiance and Inner Beast. Survivability is not an issue for any tank, but different tanks are better suited offensively to tank certain parts of a given fight.

IB's function is a bit odd. With 2.1, it was supposed to be WAR's answer to Rampart. It's availability, however, meant that you could mitigate every significant hit with IB, on top of your other major cooldowns. It's significantly easier to time than Rampart and Shadowskin on single hit tankbusters, as you're often aiming to activate these skills much further in advance than you would IB (i.e. 18-19 seconds in advance instead of 4-5 seconds) in order to cut back on the recast time. HW somewhat addressed this by making Defiance and IB less desirable, through Deliverance and Fell Cleave respectively. RI is functionally more similar to Rampart, with IB now functioning more along the lines of the other tanks' short recast cooldowns (Sheltron/Dark Mind).

DRK isn't about brute force. WAR's attacks are built around big, weighty hits that do large amounts of damage. DRK is about speed and finesse. Between the haste boost of Blood Weapon and the oGCDs, you're forced to quickly prioritise and map out your next actions much further in advance. You have the potential to play at a higher rate of actions per minute than even some melee dps jobs, let alone your co-tanks.

It is extremely rewarding if you enjoy the tactical side of tanking. You'll find yourself asking questions like "Can I position these two mobs close enough that I can hit both of them with Salted Earth, but far enough away from each other that they don't tether?" or "Can I help AoE down that cluster of mobs while tanking the boss in another corner of the room?" or "What sorts of distant destructible objects can I get Soul Survivor procs off of today?"

Gap closers are knockback negation tools, but they're still also gap closers. They increase your melee uptime. The simplest example of this is where you're forced away from a mob because of a point-blank AoE or distance-based mechanic, and you flip back instantly when the game snapshots your position to determine whether you take the hit. There are plenty of places, especially this raid tier, where this can let you squeeze in an extra GCD or two.

Remember, everyone expects WAR to do more damage, partially by reputation and partially because they're designed to at baseline. You gotta play smart if you want to close the gap.

[Kaptin_Bluddflagg]

Animation cancelling refers to the fact that when you weave an oGCD immediately following a GCD ability with a long animation, the floating combat text (with the damage numbers/debuffs) appears more quickly, rather than at the end of the animation. It's not unique to WAR at all; it was incidentally first taught in BLM circles as the ancient ritual of fireweaving, to check for firestarter procs.

It gained some interest amongst tanks during the final raid tier of A Realm Reborn, when 'snap aggro generation' became a popular subject of discussion, especially as a WAR offtank picking up adds (phase 2 of t13). The third hit of every tank's enmity combo (Rage of Halone/Butcher's Block/Power Slash) has a relatively long animation, with the damage/enmity only occurring at the end. You may have noticed this if you use RoH/BB/PS on a mob just as you lose aggro on it: it wanders off, the animation finishes, and then it wanders back.

The idea at the time was that if you used an oGCD (i.e. Brutal Swing) immediately following BB, the damage/enmity from BB would activate faster, allowing you to secure aggro more quickly, because the damage numbers seemed to be appearing more quickly. The original author of this claim later retracted it after additional testing.

WAR has a strong mitigation kit with relatively short recasts on its defensive abilities. The flipside is that WAR starts to hemorrhage dps if you put sustained pressure on them, forcing them to become more reliant on Defiance and Inner Beast. Survivability is not an issue for any tank, but different tanks are better suited offensively to tank certain parts of a given fight.

IB's function is a bit odd. With 2.1, it was supposed to be WAR's answer to Rampart. It's availability, however, meant that you could mitigate every significant hit with IB, on top of your other major cooldowns. It's significantly easier to time than Rampart and Shadowskin on single hit tankbusters, as you're often aiming to activate these skills much further in advance than you would IB (i.e. 18-19 seconds in advance instead of 4-5 seconds) in order to cut back on the recast time. HW somewhat addressed this by making Defiance and IB less desirable, through Deliverance and Fell Cleave respectively. RI is functionally more similar to Rampart, with IB now functioning more along the lines of the other tanks' short recast cooldowns (Sheltron/Dark Mind).

DRK isn't about brute force. WAR's attacks are built around big, weighty hits that do large amounts of damage. DRK is about speed and finesse. Between the haste boost of Blood Weapon and the oGCDs, you're forced to quickly prioritise and map out your next actions much further in advance. You have the potential to play at a higher rate of actions per minute than even some melee dps jobs, let alone your co-tanks.

It is extremely rewarding if you enjoy the tactical side of tanking. You'll find yourself asking questions like "Can I position these two mobs close enough that I can hit both of them with Salted Earth, but far enough away from each other that they don't tether?" or "Can I help AoE down that cluster of mobs while tanking the boss in another corner of the room?" or "What sorts of distant destructible objects can I get Soul Survivor procs off of today?"

Gap closers are knockback negation tools, but they're still also gap closers. They increase your melee uptime. The simplest example of this is where you're forced away from a mob because of a point-blank AoE or distance-based mechanic, and you flip back instantly when the game snapshots your position to determine whether you take the hit. There are plenty of places, especially this raid tier, where this can let you squeeze in an extra GCD or two.

Remember, everyone expects WAR to do more damage, partially by reputation and partially because they're designed to at baseline. You gotta play smart if you want to close the gap.

This.
This is what I wanted to hear. Tactical choices and maneuvering above simple brute force and toughness.
Thanks a lot, mate.

[Blim]

This.
This is what I wanted to hear. Tactical choices and maneuvering above simple brute force and toughness.
Thanks a lot, mate.

The thread is starting to sound like you just wanted affirmation that DRK is the best tank, the other tanks suck and you wanted justifications for it

[DestroyerOfLargePlanets]

WAR has a strong mitigation kit with relatively short recasts on its defensive abilities. The flipside is that WAR starts to hemorrhage dps if you put sustained pressure on them, forcing them to become more reliant on Defiance and Inner Beast. Survivability is not an issue for any tank, but different tanks are better suited offensively to tank certain parts of a given fight.

^This. Surviving is definitely not an issue for a WAR (they basically have unlimited defensive cooldowns due to Inner Beast). However, the fact that WAR can deal insane amounts of damage as a tank -- compared to the other tanks -- makes it almost mandatory that a WAR fills the off-tank role rather than the main-tank role in most fights. When a WAR goes main-tank (MT), it's generally considered to be a significant loss of potential DPS, since WAR must use Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave sometimes in order to mitigate huge tank busters. Of course, the mechanics and mechanic timings of a fight can potentially make the main-tank role more favorable in terms of DPS for a WAR than the off-tank (OT) role. ie: A WAR may get more DPS uptime as MT, whereas the OT role in a fight may be more mechanic-focused with less DPS uptime. DPS uptime is a major factor.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but if you're the type of tank who likes to maximize your DPS, then WAR is probably the most complex. In other words, (IMO) it's harder to maximize your DPS as a WAR in Savage than it is to maximize your DPS as a DRK in Savage. That is because WAR must make sure to use Berserk as much as possible. Not only that, but you can't just be popping Berserk just when it's up -- you have to use it when it's MOST effective. Often you're going to have to plan ahead to figure out how and when to use Berserk. Is it better to open up with triple fell cleave (500 potency * 3) on the boss as soon as the fight starts, or is it worth it to wait 60 seconds to get a double or triple berserked decimate on that group of 7 adds (280 potency * 7 * 3) that show up 60 seconds into the fight? Is it still worth it if you had to hold berserk for 90 seconds? For 120 seconds? How about if there were only 3 adds? At what point would it NOT be worth it?

For DRK, you don't really have to think about it as much. You just keep your DoTs up (Salted Earth, Scourge) as much as possible and stay out of Grit as long as possible. Use Blood Weapon, Dark Arts > Carve and Spit as often as you can while out of Grit and pop them abilities (Dark Passenger, Low Blow, Plunge, Reprisal) as much as you can. DRK is not reliant on huge damage spikes, so it's not necessary for a DRK to plan out an optimal DPS "plan". If anything, a DRK will be on MT duty so he'll have to plan out when he'll have to go back into Grit and how he'll use his defensive cooldowns. DPS-wise a DRK is much more simple.

[Lyth]

Not only that, but you can't just be popping Berserk just when it's up -- you have to use it when it's MOST effective. Often you're going to have to plan ahead to figure out how and when to use Berserk. Is it better to open up with triple fell cleave (500 potency * 3) on the boss as soon as the fight starts, or is it worth it to wait 60 seconds to get a double or triple berserked decimate on that group of 7 adds (280 potency * 7 * 3) that show up 60 seconds into the fight? Is it still worth it if you had to hold berserk for 90 seconds? For 120 seconds? How about if there were only 3 adds? At what point would it NOT be worth it?

It is always wasteful to hold on to a cooldown for longer than its recast. This is true for both defensive and offensive cooldowns. In the case of Berserk, you shouldn't be holding on to it for more than 90 seconds. If you want to check, your total number of Berserk uses should equal the total fight duration divided by its recast.

People seem to get hung up on FoF and Berserk windows when in reality, it's not all that different from the way you map out your defensives. So the timing didn't work out on your very first run. Just... adjust it? It's trial and error. This isn't astrophysics. Most dps work with more complex offensive cooldown rotations once they pass about level 30.

WAR in a nutshell:
1) Don't drop Maim/SE
2) Fit as many FCs/Decis into each pot/Berserk as you can
3) Maximise deliverance uptime

You can fine tune it past that, but most people struggle with the basics.