Should Cleric Stance be disabled in party instances?

[Caitlyn]

I understand the use of cleric stance in solo content. Fine.

Now if cleric stance is disabled in PvE dungeons/raids (like in PvP), the issue of people complaining you are not dpsing enough will dissipate, possibly.

Bad idea. Think about Expert Roulette. Scholars can go afk for 20 mins, using auto follow, while Eos going to heal it all alone. Whitemages and Astrologians will fall asleep. Good job, you ruined the game.

Yes you can still dps, but just not as much.

Did you ever try to do damage without cleric stance? Without cleric stance its just a huge waste of mana. If you make cleric stance enabled for only 5% of the total ingame content, you can actually throw any offensive skill away.

Healer's job is to heal. DPS is mostly for when you do solo content - I mean you are called a healer for a reason.......................................

Cleric stance is for try hards and nerds who need to get a life.

You job is to keep your party alive! And includes to heal and doing damage. The game provides a huge mana pool, many offensive skills and a few mana recovery skills. There is no reason not to use it. In fact:
Doing some extra damage -> fights are shorter -> less total healing needed -> tanks and DDs can save a few cooldowns for other situations

[Iromi]

Yeah, what Caitlyn said is true. With the way this games battle system is I really don't see them removing cleric stance , OP.

It's obvious from the responses in this thread people like cleric stance...heh I imagine if they removed it it would be worse then the bard threads we saw after 3.0 xD

[ErdrickLoto]

Once upon a time, I was a lot like the OP. I adamantly refused to use Cleric Stance, making sure only to heal, maybe throw an Aero or two. After taking a break for a while, I got back into healing, namely because a friend of mine started playing as a tank and I used that as an opportunity to get Stoneskin as a crossclass.

Now I definitely prefer using Cleric Stance. It's a nice balance, switching between attacking and healing, though sometimes I do slip up. I'd definitely prefer keeping it as an option.

[MikeWW]

People with bad ideas should be disabled from posting.

[Keramory]

No without Cleric Stance I would be standing around doing nothing for half the fight. Although I don't think any healers should of needed Cleric Stance in the first place, as our damage should of come directly from our MND stat instead of INT.



Tank also fills two roles and can tank and dps if anything I would like all classes to be a bit more flexible with other roles.

I think a big issue within itself is healers are standing around not doing much if it wasn't for DPS. They should be given more reasons to heal...

Dont get me wrong I'm not saying healers shouldn't DPS, but clearly theres an issue when the main role of a job isn't being fulfilled a majority of the time. We're not healers at that point, we're Red Mages / Supports.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I think a big issue within itself is healers are standing around not doing much if it wasn't for DPS. They should be given more reasons to heal...

Dont get me wrong I'm not saying healers shouldn't DPS, but clearly theres an issue when the main role of a job isn't being fulfilled a majority of the time. We're not healers at that point, we're Red Mages / Supports.

Not an issue at all WHM has always been able to heal and dps in the single player games. But yes WHM is healer and support that's why you have Protect/Stoneskin etc. If going to remove clerics then remove holy/gravity/Ruin and dots and change class quests to healing only and be able to kill mobs only by hitting with your weapon.

You have all these skills available why play half a job ?

[FunkyBunch]

Not an issue at all WHM has always been able to heal and dps in the single player games. But yes WHM is healer and support that's why you have Protect/Stoneskin etc. If going to remove clerics then remove holy/gravity/Ruin and dots and change class quests to healing only and be able to kill mobs only by hitting with your weapon.

You have all these skills available why play half a job ?

Hurr Durr, cuz the icon is green!

[Lucke]

I'd much rather have trash/bosses do way more dmg so Healers don't have time to DPS. They are constantly healing, and you know, being a healer.

[Keramory]

Not an issue at all WHM has always been able to heal and dps in the single player games. But yes WHM is healer and support that's why you have Protect/Stoneskin etc. If going to remove clerics then remove holy/gravity/Ruin and dots and change class quests to healing only and be able to kill mobs only by hitting with your weapon.

You have all these skills available why play half a job ?

I believe you're misunderstanding my comment. I never said WHM or other healers shouldn't DPS. I support it. How much they should be able (not willing) is something to bring up however. Because yes, whm has a set to help DPS in every game. So whats the difference between RDM and WHM? Well duh, we know what that is, the RDM nukes more and heals less.

What I'm arguing, is we are that RDM as it stands for most content (not all). In fact I believe this game has a huge problem with the concept of support classes, something it didnt have as much in 1.0. We as the healers, are support hybrids who are not full healers in the classical sense and we dont have any supports in the classical sense.

Now if you're ok with that, thats one thing, I'm just acknowledging that it exists and I myself don't agree with it. Again, just to CLARIFY, I am not excusing lazy healers who not DPS. I believe that work on DPS'ing however should be split more so between healing and DPSing. No laziness was gained in this concept.


edit- Just to ask around on the subject, someone mentioned that DPS-> shorter fights -> saving MP/heals. Now this might be 110% true, and it makes sense just thinking about, but did anyone actually crunch numbers on this? I'm a numbers guy, I'd like to see the data if it is helping and by how much. It wont effect my gameplay (cause again, I DPS), but I'm always curious about such things.

edit again- I'm looking at just my hotbar atm.... 530 for stone III, 884 for cure II. Am I really saving that much on DPSing? It's not looking likely so far.

[FunkyBunch]

edit- Just to ask around on the subject, someone mentioned that DPS-> shorter fights -> saving MP/heals. Now this might be 110% true, and it makes sense just thinking about, but did anyone actually crunch numbers on this? I'm a numbers guy, I'd like to see the data if it is helping and by how much. It wont effect my gameplay (cause again, I DPS), but I'm always curious about such things.

edit again- I'm looking at just my hotbar atm.... 530 for stone III, 884 for cure II. Am I really saving that much on DPSing? It's not looking likely so far.

I don't know about how much MP it saves, but ~400 Healer DPS on Neverreap/Fractal works out to about 3-5 mins off dungeon time. I crunched the numbers in another thread from fflogs.
But the BIGGER/more noticeable effect for is that it saves everyone else's MP and TP (as a NIN I can run out of TP on full pulls-all the available mobs before a barrier- if the Healer doesn't help DPS).