Lore Book Revelations

[Cilia]

We know from Alexander that stable time loops are a thing. We also know from Alexander that the WoL will make a decision at some point in the future that Alex could not see beyond, but he knows that this decision is an important one, determining the fate of our world (and possibly more for all we know). What if, and this is a pretty big outlandish if, the entirety of what we know is a stable time loop? What if this sequence of H and Z breaking apart then engaging in a rejoining has happened before, and up to the point we're at now, things have just repeated?

While that is an interesting proposition, it wouldn't quite be the same. History repeating is a likely thing, but Alexander's situation is a bit different. The events surrounding Alexander are one big causal loop - they've already happened, so nothing we do can change a single thing in regards to the events surrounding Alexander.

On the other hand, the Ascians do seem to be putting effort into their actions. If the events surrounding Hydaelyn, Zodiark, and Rejoinings were a causal loop, they wouldn't need to bother (or at least not need to worry) - things would be guaranteed to play out in a certain sequence because they've already done so.

That's not to say a cycle similar to a merging and splitting of Light and Dark hasn't happened in the distant past or future, but it would be a case of Eternal Recurrence rather than a Causality Loop.

An easier way to explain it would be to use another game as an example.

FFXIV: Alexander's events are one big causal loop. Everything that we do, all the battles we fight, have already been won, because if that were not the case it would create a temporal paradox. Time moves in a circle in this case: Alexander is summoned, sends Mide and Dayan back to the past, and is summoned as a result. Everything has already happened; within the loop we're just actors on a stage, reciting a script that has been played out before, forever.

Dark Souls II: in the context of the story, Drangleic is implied to have been built on the ruins of countless kingdoms that rose and fell before it. This will continue to happen time and again no matter what ending you choose; in the original release you had to take the Throne of Want, and doing so simply makes you the lead of this "production" so to speak (you Link the Fire and burn until the Flame splutters and fades and another Undead comes to replace you, or you take your place as the Dark Lord until another Undead defeats you and one eventually Links the Fire). An additional ending in the updated version has you turn your back on the Throne of Want and deny either of the original endings, but even that makes no difference in the end: an Undead will eventually Link the Fire, causing another iteration of the cycle. While it's not on a cosmic scale, this is an example of eternal recurrence instead of a causal loop - this sequence of events plays out over and over again, but with different actors on a different stage. This cycle goes on until entropy has caught up with the world by the time of III.

TL;DR Alexander is caught in a loop, while a hypothetical merging and splitting of Light and Dark over the eons is just a cycle.

[Ametrine]

Deviating a bit here, but did the lore touch upon why Alphinaud and Alisaie are so much shorter than other Elezen despite being 17 in ARR?

Do Elezen just have one hell of a growth spurt in their early 20s?

I'm especially confused as we see Honoroit and Saulette working as servants despite using the same models as regular children, and Emanellain (spelling?) is clearly a young man but adult height...

[myahele]

In a lore panel years ago it was said that Elezens live a little bit longer than the other races and that their childhood/ puberty period is longer as a result

That said, Elezen actually do have a longer lifespan than the other four races. And this also appears in the- when they go from child to puberty to adulthood. So which is why you'll see in the- in 1.0 there was a bunch of Elezen children that appeared in some of the quests and they appear again in 2.0, and they're still children. And you think well it's been five years why are they still children? It's because again that childhood for Elezen can last much longer. And they end up living longer as well. Um, but for the most part it's pretty much just the same as us, but with more... fatality.

[DarthSanguine]

Speaking of which. This seems to be a watery twist on the whole "A god emerging from chaos and made creation" concpet permeating msot creation myths. I think this m ight be due to common idea of seeing outer space as an ocean.

Inb4 Leviathan is the original God, and the sea he is said to have created in his origin myth is the Aetherial Sea.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Deviating a bit here, but did the lore touch upon why Alphinaud and Alisaie are so much shorter than other Elezen despite being 17 in ARR?

Do Elezen just have one hell of a growth spurt in their early 20s?

I'm especially confused as we see Honoroit and Saulette working as servants despite using the same models as regular children, and Emanellain (spelling?) is clearly a young man but adult height...

Somebody asked if the twins were half Lalafell (absolute waste of a question; no, let's not take this rare chance to actually ask Yoshida something worthwhile, why would we want to do that <.<). Naturally, the answer was "They are Elezen!"

But as for the others: Honoroit is 14, and, if I'm deducing this right, Emmanellain is 26 (four years younger than his brother, who was 25 when the Calamity hit). Ysayle, meanwhile, was 24 when she died, so clearly Elezen hit their adult height sometime between their late teens and early twenties. And speaking of Emmanellain: While Artoirel's biography implies that 25 is considered "young" for an Elezen military commander, I don't see anything indicating Emmanellain himself isn't an adult; indeed, I thought the obvious takeaway from his behaviour is that he's flighty and immature for his age, not that he's actually a young man.

[Naria]

Tales from the Dragonsong War: Vows Unbroken also features a picture of nineteen-year-old Haurchefant who clearly hadn't hit his adult height yet, so Elezen men at least probably don't finish growing until their early twenties.

Edit: Er actually I was wrong Haurchefant was seventeen in Vows Unbroken. drat.

[Yuella]

does it mean Alphinaud and Alisaie will be tall as hell? That would suck. I'm used to seeing them like this. It's like seeing adult Porom and Palom in After Years. Doesn't seem right.

[Alisa180]

Deviating a bit here, but did the lore touch upon why Alphinaud and Alisaie are so much shorter than other Elezen despite being 17 in ARR?

Do Elezen just have one hell of a growth spurt in their early 20s?

I'm especially confused as we see Honoroit and Saulette working as servants despite using the same models as regular children, and Emanellain (spelling?) is clearly a young man but adult height...

First: The twins are 16, not seventeen.

From Tumblr:



To answer your question: Yes, according to the lorebook they do have a big growth spurt around 20.

A good rule of thumb when dealing with the 'physical' age of Elezen is to either take their known age and divide it by .8, or take a 'physical age' and multiply it by 1.2 to find out what age they actually reach that point (in comparison to other races/humans). According to a lore panel, they can live to about 120, compared to 100 for the other races, so they age about 20% slower.

Honoroit is 14, so 14*.8=11.2. His 'physical age' (relative to other races) is actually 11, hence why he has the 'child' model. Emanellain is around 26 by deduction, 26*.8= 20.8. At a 'physical age' of twenty, he's long reached his adult height.

As for the twins, 16*.8=12.8, which I usually round up to thirteen. That's why they still look like 13-year olds despite being sixteen. In 'Elezen years', they actually ARE thirteen!

Assuming they mature at roughly the same 'physical age' as humans, most boys stop growing around age 16 or 17, sometimes later. If we multiply that by 1.2, we can get how old Elezen reach physical maturity. 16*1.2=19.2, 17*1.2=20.4. That's right in the 'around twenty' ballpark described by the lorebook.

Finally, Hraesvelger says Elezen 'lose their youthful vigor' at 'two score and ten', which is 50 years for those who don't know what a 'score' is. 50*.8=40.

...Er, yeah, I did very thorough analysis of Elezen growth and age a while back. ...It was for fan fiction, alright? You have to know these things if you want to write young Elezen characters any older or younger then they are in at the time of FFXIV, because of their slower growth pattern.

As an aside, that picture of Hauchefant in Vows Unbroken is from when he was twelve, not seventeen.

[Naria]

does it mean Alphinaud and Alisaie will be tall as hell? That would suck. I'm used to seeing them like this. It's like seeing adult Porom and Palom in After Years. Doesn't seem right.

I doubt that Alphinaud and Alisaie will ever change character models. That would require them to actually set down a firm timeline of events for the MSQ instead of the vague "time is passing" that there is now. They have continuously avoided from saying how much time has passed exactly since ARR began-- likely partially at least because all of the usual lore forum suspects are on the look out for any mention of a timeline besides "many weeks" or "a while".

As an aside, that picture of Hauchefant in Vows Unbroken is from when he was twelve, not seventeen.

Just out of curiosity would you mind giving me the quote on that? My book is still in the mail, but from the bits that I've read Haurchefant "served house Fortemps" for eleven years and I thought I also read his rescuing of Francel is part of what contributed to him earning knighthood. Twenty-eight minus eleven is seventeen so I'd like to know which bit exactly I've got wrong.

Edit: nvm found it.

[Alleo]

@Naria: I am not completely sure anymore but isnt the picture from the time where he met Francel for the first time? I do believe he was not a knight there and at the beginning Francel says: "Fifteen...sixteen years now" which I kinda take that meeting Haurchefant for the first time was around 15/16 years before that event so he should be around 12. Later on when he protected Francel its already some years later and its there where he became a knight, which is around 16/17 thanks to the information from the lore book.

And I agree with you, I dont believe that they will change the twins models much. They are still some years before hitting the growth spurt and I dont think that FF14 will play over years ingame.