Lore Book Revelations

[Balipu]

Inconvenient character limit

So it doesn't get more specific than this in the book.

Anyroad so it isn't the calamity itself that weakens the walls between the source and the fragments. It is Hydaelin herself who does it to repair the damage of the calamity. That's weird because the workings of the Ascians made Hydaelin unable to do anything. Killing off Hydaelin would prevent more rejoinings to occur.

But if 7 rejoined already and can't be traveled to in later expansions than it really does seem that each Calamity on the Source lead to a rejoining. That's kinda weird.

Master Moose. What does to lorebook and/or your notes say about how much of our world is reflected? I mean we have seven hells and seven heavens. Does that also apply to the reflections? Does the void have a seventh hell (that has to be the evilest place ever)? This has bothered me ever since we learned of the 13 reflections.

[FJerome]

Master Moose. What does to lorebook and/or your notes say about how much of our world is reflected? I mean we have seven hells and seven heavens. Does that also apply to the reflections? Does the void have a seventh hell (that has to be the evilest place ever)? This has bothered me ever since we learned of the 13 reflections.

Sadly I am not Anonymoose but I am replying anyway - I don't think the Seven Hells and Heavens actually exist.

In the book they're described as part of the beliefs of the mainstream Twelve Worship religion and the book even mentions that some sects within Twelve Worship have different afterlife beliefs. Given how it's looking increasingly certain that the Twelve themselves don't exist, unless as primals, I'd be really surprised if the rest of their mythology existed.

[myahele]

I'm surprised that the War of Magi lasted 300 years; I always thought it lasted many decades at most, but 300 years? That's a very very long time; even more surprising was that Amdapor was the ruling city state of the 12 city states prior to Mhach developing BLM.

I guess I now understand why Mhach and Amdapor's architecture looked like it was built on pillars/ tall buildings since they were building up due to the rising waters.

I can somewhat see the similarities between the 12 creation myth and what little is know about the Age of the Gods. Both had unchecked creation which where somehow destroyed via Wind Calamity. It was said that Nym summoned a meteor to destroy the creations and for a time harmony was reached. I remember in another thread months ago that speculated that the wind calamity was a Hypercane (which can be the end-result of a comet/meteor crashing into earth) ... then there's the "calamity from the skies" that mentioned by Moogles.

[Anonymoose]

Anyroad so it isn't the calamity itself that weakens the walls between the source and the fragments. It is Hydaelin herself who does it to repair the damage of the calamity. That's weird because the workings of the Ascians made Hydaelin unable to do anything. Killing off Hydaelin would prevent more rejoinings to occur.

I don't think it goes quote that far, though I can't say how far it goes. Still, quotes like...

...each Calamity marks a Rejoining─the obliteration of a reflection, and a triumph of the Dark.

They seek to tear down the barriers which surround the Source. Thus do they rejoice in their Ardor─in your calamities─for each marks a Rejoining. Seven times have they succeeded. Seven times hath the Darkness grown stronger. Seven times have I failed.

For there is but one way to restore the balance and save our home: the Ardor. Calamitous destruction with the power to break down the barriers between planes, and see our worlds rejoined.

...imply (to me) that the extraordinary levels of harnessed power and chaos will bring the walls down regardless of other factors. The death of Hydaelyn as a means to stop Rejoinings might be akin to death as a means to stop the spread of cancer; kind of throwing out the baby with the bath water. What would sustain our realm? Perhaps, if the other realms were fully rejoined, we could count on Zodiark - or the unification of the two - to not only peacefully and gently settle into the aetherial realm without causing any disruption to the corporeal but also just leave life to exist in peace. But, given what we know at the moment ... good luck with that. No one seems to care about mortals but Her.

Elidibus - the emissary of Zodiark's will - seems to abhor any death not in service to the Ardor, though. Could that be a sign, or does he just hate everything to do with Her Lifestream and disruption of balance? He also basically said that (should his vision and not that of those in black come to pass) the land, mortals, and everything else would all be reverted to their original, pre-division form rather than just having Zodiark burn out and excise Hydaelyn entirely. So far, none of those alternatives seem auspicious for mortals.

What does to lorebook and/or your notes say about how much of our world is reflected? I mean we have seven hells and seven heavens. Does that also apply to the reflections? Does the void have a seventh hell (that has to be the evilest place ever)? This has bothered me ever since we learned of the 13 reflections.

The exact quote from the Lorebook (from the perspective of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn) is...

This excision of Light from Darkness, however, left a wound in the aether, splitting the corporeal plane from the "Source" into ten and three mirrored "reflections" which, while identical on their formation, saw separate and unique evolutions.

The seven heavens and seven hells might be an entirely Eorzean belief system based on the original seeds of faith of the Twelve. Lewphon of Sharlayan is credited with organizing much of this into a single narrative only one thousand and forty-four years ago. It probably isn't the most accurate version. I'll try to simplify the (beautiful) language used in the EE:

There was the Whorl, until Althyk emerged and created weight, creating land and firmament. The baby Nymeia emerged from the Whorl, whose tears created a lake (Silvertear). Althyk adopted this babe until it was grown, and their coupling brought forth Azeyma and Menphina - the sun and moon - day and night.

Then did Thaliak emerge from the Whorl and change the lake so that its rivers covered the realm. Azeyma fell in love with Thaliak, and they begat Llymlaen (who expanded Her grandmother's waters to fill the seas) and Nophica, who created life out of loneliness.

Once life had spread throughout the world, Oschon emerged from the Whorl and wandered the world, his journeys creating the mountains and the wind that carried life from the sea and land to the skies. This won Llymlaen's love, but in Oschon's wandering the two were never together long enough to beget other gods.

This wanton creation and destruction led Nymeia to animate a great comet from the heavens and destroy the excess (Rhalgr), bringing harmony to the land . But the Whorl became active once again, creation Byregot and sister Halone. Fearing they would upset the balance, Nymeia put them under Rhalgr's care.

However, Byregot did not want to destroy, and spent much of his time with Thaliak. Halone was more receptive, but became restless and joined Oschon on His wanderings, challenging all before her to battle. This put her at odds with mother Nophica, and, feeling responsible for the rift between then, Oschon called forth magma from the mountains and created Nald'thal to watch over those who had died and prevent them from wandering aimlessly through the void.

Their world complete, the gods created the six elemental heavens - and a seventh to rule them all - and retreated to the firmament. However, in doing so, the seven hells were called into being. (All of the Twelve are allegedly in the heavens.)

First impressions, I'd suspected that the 7 Heavens and 7 Hells were an entirely a new belief system that arose from thousands of years of warped history about the Source, the void, and the twelve surviving reflections. But who can say? Maybe one of our theories will be incidentally right, in the end; take a shot in the dark!

But even trying to conclusively pin down whether Age of the Gods is supposed to be post-division prehistory, or pre-division entirely is giving me a headache. Especially since we have sources saying [A] Life was created after the division, but [B] the corporeal realm existed with the Source.

Who knows what tales are accurate.

[Balipu]

Most important lorebook revelation: We are going to need a second lorebook.

[Morningstar1337]

Speaking of which. This seems to be a watery twist on the whole "A god emerging from chaos and made creation" concpet permeating msot creation myths. I think this m ight be due to common idea of seeing outer space as an ocean.

[Belhi]

Speaking of which. This seems to be a watery twist on the whole "A god emerging from chaos and made creation" concpet permeating msot creation myths. I think this m ight be due to common idea of seeing outer space as an ocean.

I took it more as a reference to the Aetheric Sea.

[FJerome]

I'm surprised that the War of Magi lasted 300 years; I always thought it lasted many decades at most, but 300 years? That's a very very long time; even more surprising was that Amdapor was the ruling city state of the 12 city states prior to Mhach developing BLM

It could have been that the first couple hundred years were a cold war situation before direct hostilities openly broke-out between Mhach and Amdapor. That may be why there were six city states at the time the war started but only three seem have mattered in the end; the others had already been destroyed through proxy wars between the Big Two.

[Quor]

Maybe it's a stretch, but I can't shake the feeling that the number 14 is relevant here, specifically in reference to the 7 hells and 7 heavens, and how, counting the source and shards, there are 14 separate planes of existence, 7 of which could be said to have "fallen" in a sense.

I'm not sure if that's just coincidence or not, given that each Calamity was supposedly a sign of a shard rejoining, but then again, maybe the 7 hells/heavens was less a cosmology thing and more of a prophetic thing? Am I making sense to anyone else?

edit: you know that? Let's go all in.

We know from Alexander that stable time loops are a thing. We also know from Alexander that the WoL will make a decision at some point in the future that Alex could not see beyond, but he knows that this decision is an important one, determining the fate of our world (and possibly more for all we know). What if, and this is a pretty big outlandish if, the entirety of what we know is a stable time loop? What if this sequence of H and Z breaking apart then engaging in a rejoining has happened before, and up to the point we're at now, things have just repeated?

Practically speaking, this would mean that yesterday's heroes are today's gods, while today's heroes will be tomorrow's gods. That includes the WoL, and likely other major characters, such as the Scions. This sequence of events that we live as the WoL has happened before, and will happen again, if the stable time loop theory is to be believed. The Twelve, as we know them, may have once been mortals like ourselves, who got caught up in the dance between H and Z, and ultimately brought about a conclusion to the cycle that ends up restarting said cycle. In other words, H and Z may have been broken apart from and then rejoined with one another countless times prior to our existence. But the decision that Alexander believes we will make might be the catalyst that ends this cycle and starts the universe off in a new, true, original direction. One that hasn't been done over and over again for who knows how long.

My thoughts are kinda scattered, but I sorta see it like this; the entities that we know as the Twelve may have once been living beings not unlike ourselves. As things escalate, and assuming the cycle continues on it's "normal" path, situations would arise that would force a rejoining, wiping the shards and making H and Z one again. H, being the Mothercrystal, will see to it that some mortals survive to seed life on the new source, and these mortals, possibly including the WoL and other major characters, will eventually pass into legend and become "the Twelve" in a sense.

Unless, of course, we make a decision that changes everything, like Alexander believes we will.

[Morningstar1337]

Maybe it's a stretch, but I can't shake the feeling that the number 14 is relevant here, specifically in reference to the 7 hells and 7 heavens, and how, counting the source and shards, there are 14 separate planes of existence, 7 of which could be said to have "fallen" in a sense.

I'm not sure if that's just coincidence or not, given that each Calamity was supposedly a sign of a shard rejoining, but then again, maybe the 7 hells/heavens was less a cosmology thing and more of a prophetic thing? Am I making sense to anyone else?

Wouldn't surprise me a bit considering the number of the game. Though I think numerologicaly 12 and 3 seems to be the more common Numbers. The pantheon aside, there are also 12 Black-robed Ascians, 6 Elements with two poles, 6 crystals of these elements, 12 different weapon types as of Heavensward, 3 Dragons heavily tied to Ishgard's history, the Warring Triad, the starting 3 Citystates, their GCs, and a voidsent hierarchy of 12.