Lore Book Revelations

[Belhi]

Speaking of which. This seems to be a watery twist on the whole "A god emerging from chaos and made creation" concpet permeating msot creation myths. I think this m ight be due to common idea of seeing outer space as an ocean.

I took it more as a reference to the Aetheric Sea.

[DarthSanguine]

Speaking of which. This seems to be a watery twist on the whole "A god emerging from chaos and made creation" concpet permeating msot creation myths. I think this m ight be due to common idea of seeing outer space as an ocean.

Inb4 Leviathan is the original God, and the sea he is said to have created in his origin myth is the Aetherial Sea.

[Quor]

Maybe it's a stretch, but I can't shake the feeling that the number 14 is relevant here, specifically in reference to the 7 hells and 7 heavens, and how, counting the source and shards, there are 14 separate planes of existence, 7 of which could be said to have "fallen" in a sense.

I'm not sure if that's just coincidence or not, given that each Calamity was supposedly a sign of a shard rejoining, but then again, maybe the 7 hells/heavens was less a cosmology thing and more of a prophetic thing? Am I making sense to anyone else?

edit: you know that? Let's go all in.

We know from Alexander that stable time loops are a thing. We also know from Alexander that the WoL will make a decision at some point in the future that Alex could not see beyond, but he knows that this decision is an important one, determining the fate of our world (and possibly more for all we know). What if, and this is a pretty big outlandish if, the entirety of what we know is a stable time loop? What if this sequence of H and Z breaking apart then engaging in a rejoining has happened before, and up to the point we're at now, things have just repeated?

Practically speaking, this would mean that yesterday's heroes are today's gods, while today's heroes will be tomorrow's gods. That includes the WoL, and likely other major characters, such as the Scions. This sequence of events that we live as the WoL has happened before, and will happen again, if the stable time loop theory is to be believed. The Twelve, as we know them, may have once been mortals like ourselves, who got caught up in the dance between H and Z, and ultimately brought about a conclusion to the cycle that ends up restarting said cycle. In other words, H and Z may have been broken apart from and then rejoined with one another countless times prior to our existence. But the decision that Alexander believes we will make might be the catalyst that ends this cycle and starts the universe off in a new, true, original direction. One that hasn't been done over and over again for who knows how long.

My thoughts are kinda scattered, but I sorta see it like this; the entities that we know as the Twelve may have once been living beings not unlike ourselves. As things escalate, and assuming the cycle continues on it's "normal" path, situations would arise that would force a rejoining, wiping the shards and making H and Z one again. H, being the Mothercrystal, will see to it that some mortals survive to seed life on the new source, and these mortals, possibly including the WoL and other major characters, will eventually pass into legend and become "the Twelve" in a sense.

Unless, of course, we make a decision that changes everything, like Alexander believes we will.

[Morningstar1337]

Maybe it's a stretch, but I can't shake the feeling that the number 14 is relevant here, specifically in reference to the 7 hells and 7 heavens, and how, counting the source and shards, there are 14 separate planes of existence, 7 of which could be said to have "fallen" in a sense.

I'm not sure if that's just coincidence or not, given that each Calamity was supposedly a sign of a shard rejoining, but then again, maybe the 7 hells/heavens was less a cosmology thing and more of a prophetic thing? Am I making sense to anyone else?

Wouldn't surprise me a bit considering the number of the game. Though I think numerologicaly 12 and 3 seems to be the more common Numbers. The pantheon aside, there are also 12 Black-robed Ascians, 6 Elements with two poles, 6 crystals of these elements, 12 different weapon types as of Heavensward, 3 Dragons heavily tied to Ishgard's history, the Warring Triad, the starting 3 Citystates, their GCs, and a voidsent hierarchy of 12.

[Cilia]

We know from Alexander that stable time loops are a thing. We also know from Alexander that the WoL will make a decision at some point in the future that Alex could not see beyond, but he knows that this decision is an important one, determining the fate of our world (and possibly more for all we know). What if, and this is a pretty big outlandish if, the entirety of what we know is a stable time loop? What if this sequence of H and Z breaking apart then engaging in a rejoining has happened before, and up to the point we're at now, things have just repeated?

While that is an interesting proposition, it wouldn't quite be the same. History repeating is a likely thing, but Alexander's situation is a bit different. The events surrounding Alexander are one big causal loop - they've already happened, so nothing we do can change a single thing in regards to the events surrounding Alexander.

On the other hand, the Ascians do seem to be putting effort into their actions. If the events surrounding Hydaelyn, Zodiark, and Rejoinings were a causal loop, they wouldn't need to bother (or at least not need to worry) - things would be guaranteed to play out in a certain sequence because they've already done so.

That's not to say a cycle similar to a merging and splitting of Light and Dark hasn't happened in the distant past or future, but it would be a case of Eternal Recurrence rather than a Causality Loop.

An easier way to explain it would be to use another game as an example.

FFXIV: Alexander's events are one big causal loop. Everything that we do, all the battles we fight, have already been won, because if that were not the case it would create a temporal paradox. Time moves in a circle in this case: Alexander is summoned, sends Mide and Dayan back to the past, and is summoned as a result. Everything has already happened; within the loop we're just actors on a stage, reciting a script that has been played out before, forever.

Dark Souls II: in the context of the story, Drangleic is implied to have been built on the ruins of countless kingdoms that rose and fell before it. This will continue to happen time and again no matter what ending you choose; in the original release you had to take the Throne of Want, and doing so simply makes you the lead of this "production" so to speak (you Link the Fire and burn until the Flame splutters and fades and another Undead comes to replace you, or you take your place as the Dark Lord until another Undead defeats you and one eventually Links the Fire). An additional ending in the updated version has you turn your back on the Throne of Want and deny either of the original endings, but even that makes no difference in the end: an Undead will eventually Link the Fire, causing another iteration of the cycle. While it's not on a cosmic scale, this is an example of eternal recurrence instead of a causal loop - this sequence of events plays out over and over again, but with different actors on a different stage. This cycle goes on until entropy has caught up with the world by the time of III.

TL;DR Alexander is caught in a loop, while a hypothetical merging and splitting of Light and Dark over the eons is just a cycle.

[FJerome]

I'm not sure if that's just coincidence or not, given that each Calamity was supposedly a sign of a shard rejoining

Fishing this completely out-of-context because it brings up a pretty critical question - does a Calamity at the Source cause a Shard to Rejoin or does a Shard Rejoining cause a Calamity at the Source? How deeply are we intertwined?

(My guess, purely from the "To Be Continued" feeling of the Minifilia and WoD plot-threads, is that it's going to turn out to be something of a 50/50 deal and that the crisis needs to resolved successfully in both Source and Shard to avoid the Calamity/Rejoining from happening.)

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Fishing this completely out-of-context because it brings up a pretty critical question - does a Calamity at the Source cause a Shard to Rejoin or does a Shard Rejoining cause a Calamity at the Source? How deeply are we intertwined?

(My guess, purely from the "To Be Continued" feeling of the Minifilia and WoD plot-threads, is that it's going to turn out to be something of a 50/50 deal and that the crisis needs to resolved successfully in both Source and Shard to avoid the Calamity/Rejoining from happening.)

Well, everything we know points towards the former - a Calamity causes a Rejoining with one of the shards, basically stressing the Source to the point where it *has* to re-absorb one of its errant reflections. If enough Shards are Rejoined, Zodiark can be re-summoned, hence why Ascians are always trying to bring about Calamities. Otherwise, the Shards remain separated, so there's no vice-versa.

[Ametrine]

Deviating a bit here, but did the lore touch upon why Alphinaud and Alisaie are so much shorter than other Elezen despite being 17 in ARR?

Do Elezen just have one hell of a growth spurt in their early 20s?

I'm especially confused as we see Honoroit and Saulette working as servants despite using the same models as regular children, and Emanellain (spelling?) is clearly a young man but adult height...

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

Deviating a bit here, but did the lore touch upon why Alphinaud and Alisaie are so much shorter than other Elezen despite being 17 in ARR?

Do Elezen just have one hell of a growth spurt in their early 20s?

I'm especially confused as we see Honoroit and Saulette working as servants despite using the same models as regular children, and Emanellain (spelling?) is clearly a young man but adult height...

Somebody asked if the twins were half Lalafell (absolute waste of a question; no, let's not take this rare chance to actually ask Yoshida something worthwhile, why would we want to do that <.<). Naturally, the answer was "They are Elezen!"

But as for the others: Honoroit is 14, and, if I'm deducing this right, Emmanellain is 26 (four years younger than his brother, who was 25 when the Calamity hit). Ysayle, meanwhile, was 24 when she died, so clearly Elezen hit their adult height sometime between their late teens and early twenties. And speaking of Emmanellain: While Artoirel's biography implies that 25 is considered "young" for an Elezen military commander, I don't see anything indicating Emmanellain himself isn't an adult; indeed, I thought the obvious takeaway from his behaviour is that he's flighty and immature for his age, not that he's actually a young man.

[myahele]

In a lore panel years ago it was said that Elezens live a little bit longer than the other races and that their childhood/ puberty period is longer as a result

That said, Elezen actually do have a longer lifespan than the other four races. And this also appears in the- when they go from child to puberty to adulthood. So which is why you'll see in the- in 1.0 there was a bunch of Elezen children that appeared in some of the quests and they appear again in 2.0, and they're still children. And you think well it's been five years why are they still children? It's because again that childhood for Elezen can last much longer. And they end up living longer as well. Um, but for the most part it's pretty much just the same as us, but with more... fatality.