Ifrits greatest weapon: Animation Lag

[Scarface]

/facepalm, did you even watch the video ?

That I did, like I said, you can tell by where everyone ran.

*Herrrderrr gonna run THROUGH the plumes to get to a safe spot*

[Resty]

See that's where your ignorance of the issue shines Scarface.
What you see on the video is whats registering on THAT PLAYERS screen. The players that appear to be "fucking up", are not seeing the same thing on theirs. I've literally watched people drop dead on my screen, that were nowhere near a plume or pool, and comented on vent, only to have 2 other people say they saw that peron somewhere else on their screen, and yet another swear they saw that same person 5 yalms east of anything anyone else saw. You can not judge where another player really is by what you are seeing. That's one of the major issues, you can't even verify that someone doesn't understand where they are supposed to be, and help correct them, because you HAVE NO IDEA where they actually are.
All 8 people can take a screenshot at the same moment, and NO PICTURE will have everyone in the same position. Think that's not true? Try it, we have fraps and compared and it's NEVER synched up.

Don't have fraps? Then maybe this will help you understand. You know that cool thing that happens in the arena, where your timers cool down, and you can spam that action button for another 15-20 seconds and get the "you can not use XXX at this time"? Yeah that's the server being 15-20 seconds off from that client. So when you see a plume or pool on your screen, guess what, that shit has already happened and you just don't know it yet, cuz the server hasn't quite got around to letting you know about it. Make no mistake though, it knows where you were standing 120 frames ago when it "really" happened, and that's what it's going to use to determine whether you dodged it, or got face-raped.

[twinkles]

As much as It's an enjoyable fight, I find it really annoying that they built an encounter based on dodging in a game that suffer of terrible lag and animation locking.

It's like you're fighting against the game itself instead of Ifrit '>.>

^^^ This so much, Amen...

[Scarface]

See that's where your ignorance of the issue shines Scarface.
What you see on the video is whats registering on THAT PLAYERS screen. The players that appear to be "fucking up", are not seeing the same thing on theirs. I've literally watched people drop dead on my screen, that were nowhere near a plume or pool, and comented on vent, only to have 2 other people say they saw that peron somewhere else on their screen, and yet another swear they saw that same person 5 yalms east of anything anyone else saw. You can not judge where another player really is by what you are seeing. That's one of the major issues, you can't even verify that someone doesn't understand where they are supposed to be, and help correct them, because you HAVE NO IDEA where they actually are.
All 8 people can take a screenshot at the same moment, and NO PICTURE will have everyone in the same position. Think that's not true? Try it, we have fraps and compared and it's NEVER synched up.

Don't have fraps? Then maybe this will help you understand. You know that cool thing that happens in the arena, where your timers cool down, and you can spam that action button for another 15-20 seconds and get the "you can not use XXX at this time"? Yeah that's the server being 15-20 seconds off from that client. So when you see a plume or pool on your screen, guess what, that shit has already happened and you just don't know it yet, cuz the server hasn't quite got around to letting you know about it. Make no mistake though, it knows where you were standing 120 frames ago when it "really" happened, and that's what it's going to use to determine whether you dodged it, or got face-raped.

You have to be bad to run into the middle of the room to avoid plume. That is a fact, don't be mad at me, claiming that they were on the other side of the map is ridiculous, and just untrue.

Simple, lag does not determine win or lose in this fight, it may add in additional layer of difficulty, but it's so easily avoidable if you aren't bad.

Half the fight I don't even move from my spot... Try again, sir.

~Champ

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

This has ZERO to do with server placement. FFXI and FMO had zero problems with server latency between the regions (it's almost a nil difference in response times whether you played in Japan or the west.)

FFXI also didn't have fights like the Ifrit battle in FFXIV.

I currently play from Japan -- I don't see this at all. Even back when the majority of the western world was still on dial-up there were equal claims, people were just slow and liked to use any excuse possible as to why they lost claim, even in the NA linkshell I was in 2 people had different stories:

Linkshellmate 1: "It spawned claim D:"
Linkshellmate 2: "Nope, it was up for at least 2 seconds."

Both from Texas. In all the time I've camped HNMs before they were popable, I've seen more people from the west claim than I did the Japanese in total, even before botting became "commonplace"

It's not the server placement, it's poorly optimized servers because it's painfully clear which game has the better response times between the two.

The answer could be right there in, "I currently play in Japan". Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. FFXI had a lot of time to fix their issues. You're using an example that had many years to be balanced and also doesn't relate to this issue currently. Why? Because a NM spawning is very different than terrain dodging as NMs don't travel from the client to the server then back again. They travel directly to the client. This was an issue very early on in FFXI's life where the NMs would always pop first for JP players and a few seconds later for NA resulting in NA rarely getting claim. This was fixed by having the NMs become unable to be claimed for a certain amount of seconds overall when they pop. This was also added in FFXIV and the reason why all mobs spawn with a purple name.

You should probably stop trying to make defensive arguments against something you are not in a position to experience.

Also, again to the thread in general I'd like to repeat that waiting to use weaponskills because of the animation lock is not a tactic against ifrit. It's a way around poor battle mechanics. Cannot stress that enough.

[Jocko]

The problem lies in SE's network infrastructure; how every facet of the game is server sided (worst idea for an online game ever), and how the network calculates and distributes movement and position data. The reason this problem has persisted since launch and why they've said very little about it, is because fixing it would require creating a new infrastructure from the ground up, and that simply isn't going to happen. You can "optimize" the current system all you want, but this problem is here to stay.

[Keftenk]

The reason why we spread wide is in case we get the double fire effect. If we stayed clumped up and got the double fire after a teleport, we would have to continue running and wouldn't be able to run any melee back in to start dpsing since the fire would be right at Ifrit. Now on the other hand, if we got double fire while we were in stride, the people who didn't have the fire can break off instantly and start attacking Ifrit.

The method is all about maximizing DPS with the 15 second intervals.

Regardless though, you're completely missing the point of the video. I was not standing in the ground effect, I was idle for quite some time until the explosion happened; then I was hit by said ground effect. There was no "running through plumes" that you claim.

[Jinko]

Simple, lag does not determine win or lose in this fight, it may add in additional layer of difficulty, but it's so easily avoidable if you aren't bad.

This is not simple lag though as people are trying to hammer into your hard head, its like trying to play a game with a blindfold on, because half the stuff that is happening on your screen actually happened several seconds ago and that's a massive thing in a fight like this.

[ViciousValentine]

People need to stop defending everything Square does. I am all for difficult boss fights but some of this fight is artificial difficulty.

[Resty]

You have to be bad to run into the middle of the room to avoid plume. That is a fact, don't be mad at me, claiming that they were on the other side of the map is ridiculous, and just untrue.

Simple, lag does not determine win or lose in this fight, it may add in additional layer of difficulty, but it's so easily avoidable if you aren't bad.

Half the fight I don't even move from my spot... Try again, sir.

And yet you still haven't beat him, even though you're so pro that the issues don't affect your success.

By the way math wizard, if there is a 15 second client/server loop, how far can a person travel across the arena during that time, resulting in a conflict of actual and displayed postion. Well I'd say back and forth about twice. Even a 5 second lagtime will skew the players actual position to a margin of error of about 1/2 the possible arena area around him.
YOU CAN NOT DETERMINE WHAT A PLAYER WAS DOING BY WHAT YOU SEE ON YOUR OR ANYONE ELSE'S SCREEN AT THE PRESENT TIME.
For all you know that player DC'd 15 seconds ago, or is in the safe zone on his screen. That path he is running could have been a movement from 5-20 seconds earlier unrelated to the event on the screen totally.
You can sit there posting "HURHUR" all day long, it does not negate the 1000 other people it's affecting.

Try again sir....