Yoshi-P on Character Growth

[Kikoten]

character builds

I heard that SE doesn't want to give us a whole slew of new abilities for the next expansion, because of the clutter. Character builds could totally be a thing for 4.0, the more I think about it. I don't know what type of character builds you're thinking of, but a few ideas I've had about it are:

A: A "talent" system much like in WoW. I think this might be a risky step to take, because it runs the risk of making each job even more cookie-cutter than they already are. People with certain builds would be shunned because their build doesn't work as good as this build, or this build is incomparable to that build.

B: Astral/Umbral Soul System: It sounds a little hokey, I know--I'm talented when it comes to thinking up hokey, wacky, weirdo things--but hear me out. What if we could fuse abilities, skills, and spells to further customize and make our jobs seem more like an art? There'd be a bit more diversity, I think. And the Astral/Umbral thing could be like swapping between two sets, much like changing Job souls.

C: I haven't thought of this yet, but it'll probably be just as wacky as the first two.

[Jetstream_Fox]

I'd imagine that's because they'd have to redo not only the character system, but something like character builds isn't something that would affect only those that want them, but it would also affect those that don't want it. A change like character builds changes it up for everyone, and not everyone has the time or desire to deal with that illusion of choice.

For the base game yes, it would impact everything, but as side content like PotD it wouldn't. In PotD the pomanders and floor effects both manipulate the way the basic dungeon is. If they developed side content using the same process and restrictions as PotD, then character builds would work well within the basic foundation of this game.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip

We have different ideas what constitutes horizontal progression. Simply having more options doesn't count as horizontal progression to me, it's just more options. When I think of Horizontal, I think of Monster Hunter, where any competent hunter has at least five different sets with varied elemental resistances and a handful of skills unlocked on each one.

[Frederick22]

Keeping the original formula is fine, what should be done is put different and dynamic things within the formula.

PotD and Wonders Tails ( I hope ) is a good start.

[Nalien]

Keeping the original formula is fine, what should be done is put different and dynamic things within the formula.

PotD and Wonders Tails ( I hope ) is a good start.

The problem with both these pieces of content though, is the rewards... Why would I grind Palace of the Dead for i235 weapons, for example? XIV has become far too predictable in its patch cycles, and the result is just that I've lost interest in chasing item levels... Why am I going to put effort into farming "relevant" item levels, when I know full well a patch will drop and pretty much reset everyones progression? I didn't bother chasing Palace weapons, or Nidhogg ones, because I knew full well that 3.4 was en route with replacements...

That's great for new players, since they can catch up to a "relevant" level quickly, but for someone who wants to keep playing and enjoying this game? Character progression is just shallow and I've completely lost interest in it... That's why I constantly relink the Final Fantasy IX suggestion, it adds some depth to content, depth that is ultimately optional, or at the very least not something that can be probed... If I don't set Dragon Killer for a particular fight, there isn't really any way anyone can tell...

They don't even need to go that far... I think Palace of the Dead would have been the perfect place to introduce horizontal progression in a localized environment... Instead they did nothing with it, it's just a series of hallways with rapid vertical progression... They could easily have made it so the aetherpool arms and armor could gain special effects, that only work in Palace of the Dead, and I'd have enjoyed the content a whole lot more... I'd go in to get stronger in Palace of the Dead, rather than just going in to grind to the finish and reset my progress for a completely irrelevant i235 weapon... Here's hoping Deep Dungeons II really does improve upon Palace of the Dead, because unless Accursed Hoard takes me by surprise, and 51-200 are amazing, Palace of the Dead is really kind of lackluster...

Item levels really just do not appeal to me in the slightest anymore... Doesn't help that a lot of content simply doesn't benefit from higher item levels... It's either useless, or capped off for a lot of content... The only reason to care about Scripture gear is so that you can farm things like Sophia for item levels to... Do nothing with... Only reason I might care is for glamours, but the glamour system in this game is horrible, and even then... Glad I never bothered to farm Ravana for glamours, given 3.4 will let me buy superior versions off the market board... Item levels just don't do anything for me anymore, while a Final Fantasy IX system would give the perception of getting stronger... Filling out that list of stats by collecting all sorts of gear and grinding away would be rewarding IMO, I'd be limited in what I can set, and that would prevent someone with loads of free time from overpowering someone with none, but just filling that list would work for me...

[thegreatonemal]

Very disappointing. I agree with most of the stuff posted on the first two pages.

Stop playing it safe and put in some longevity in the damn game and some horizontal game play.

I notice some people talking about retaining subs and what not...well, this game isn't. At least according to the lucky bancho and that other census taken recently...it keeps dropping. It used to be 500kish people completed the main scenario, then it was 320k or so...now its down to 200k.

So something isn't working..playing it safe is counterproductive. :/ I am the person to say GAME ISD YING!!!!! its not dying but the subs are dropping at a steady rate, that is for sure. So can we please change things up Yoshida a little? ._.

Horizontal progression is the illusion of choice people really need to get off the FFXI nostalgia bandwagon. Census does not mean much all it really states is that x number of people have gotten through all of the main story which is a massive amount from start to finish btw. News flash people don't play this game every day nor do they bum rush to the end game. Secondly other games come out given that wow came out with a new expansion which draws people to the shiny new thing. those people will be back while they wait 8 months plus for the next wow expansion after the shiny wears off. Third its the fall gaming season a whole bunch of games will be dropping in the next two months which will also drive people away from this game for a short time (hell no one would even care about 3.4 if FF15 was not delayed). Once the shiny wears off of other mmos and other games people will come back the numbers fall and rise like this all the time

[Frederick22]

snip

I understand your concern about PotD Nalien, but I only agree in the rewarding.

I think it was SE playing their safe card. Given how bad Diadem was, they didnt want to try something that could potencialy fail. Maybe they wanted to bring us this, and wait to the feedback to see if the next time they could make even higher risks.

Since we know this had much more succes than Diadem, I'm sure the 2nd part will be better. Sure the next deep dungeon will be even better.

Wonders tails, just from the first look and see how it works, is good. E very decent way and fun to go and do old content. Its not something like expert, it will take some time but no so much and with luck the rewards are amasing....dont tell me a ilvl180 HQ DoL/H with 5 guarante slots is not good xD

Scuadrons, may not be what people wanted. But we know that its comining, we know we will sson be able to do dutys with them. Now is just an advanced and more complex version of ventures. I dont see the issue, there is still couple details we dont know, but on what we know is that it will need our full attention depending which missions they do. The more you play, the fasters your squadrons will lvl up.

We still have to see what the new Diadem will bring, and we still have that hint of what Yoshi P said was planing to add something never seeing on a mmorpg.

[Nalien]

dont tell me a ilvl180 HQ DoL/H with 5 guarante slots is not good xD

It's not... For the same reason new Scriptures gear is just a waste of time IMO...

Let me put it this way, what are you going to use the gear for? I've been looking forward to Wondrous Tails, just because I prefer content like Binding Coil and old Primals to current content, but the rewards range from meh to just rubbing me the wrong way... The only thing I have to craft, for which quality matters and thus I need gear, is the i180 non-combat stuff, and the upcoming i250 combat stuff... Wondrous Tails has the potential to reward people with that though, and the added meld slots just make it out right superior to anything I can make myself... As a crafter, I'm not happy about that... Heck, part of the appeal with crafting, and one of the reasons I dislike how glamour focused crafting is, is that I can put my signature on my own gear... I liked 2.#s Artisan's gear because it had my signature on it, proof that I'd made it myself... That's gone now too...

The only other thing to do with this stuff is to sell it, presumably for pretty high sums given it's rare, but... It's been a long time since I've needed Gil... I do not actively try to make Gil, and yet I'm coming up to 100m now...

[Alahra]

The only thing I have to craft, for which quality matters and thus I need gear, is the i180 non-combat stuff, and the upcoming i250 combat stuff... Wondrous Tails has the potential to reward people with that though, and the added meld slots just make it out right superior to anything I can make myself... As a crafter, I'm not happy about that...

It's highly unlikely that the gear rewards for Wondrous Tails are going to be at all common—currently, it looks like you have a 1/476 chance of getting a gear reward per week, before taking into account the potential of the Second Chance item. Even if it were four times as likely, you'd still not be at 1 per 100 people getting one of those pieces per week!

The end result is that the i250 crafting gear is likely going to have plenty of value, especially for hardcore raiders, who are going to want to get the sets as soon as possible without fighting against the RNG of Wondrous Tails.

[Reynhart]

That's a big part of why he has been cautious.

Interesting analysis of FFXI.

However, the reaction to this analysis should be exactly the opposite of what Yoshi-P does. FFXI players were not furious because everything changed. They were furious because everything they did was made irrelevant.
After spending a lot of time to earn the most powerful lvl75 weapon, you're pissed because a new player can buy a lvl85 weapon better than yours.

That's exactly what happens in FFXIV for every content...