Roles for Samurai, Red Mage, Dancer

[TarynH]

Also can someone explain the penchant some of the playerbase has for suggesting clothies as tanks? Mages and clothies are squishy i.e. not tanks.

In Final Fantasy 1, Red Mage could actually wear light armor (chainmail, etc.). In FFXI they can wear scale mail. Technically any "mage" can wear whatever the developer decides they want them to wear.

But here's another idea. Shameless plug: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...d-BLU-function

[Vanitas]

If Samurai isn't a DPS I'm quitting this game for a whole ten minutes.

[ADVSS]

Personal spell like Protect (or tank stance) to increase defense to a good level, done. Its not so much we want a clothed mage, we just want something new for tanking. In almost every game played, I have never seen a straight up mage character tank (if you know one, please let me know, may be interested). I mean in a way, I'd imagine just like BLM with new spells and better defense but not as good in attacks....actually that does sound like a RDM.

aye but tank armor is superior in magic defense compared to even mage armor in this iteration, not lying, its really sad, itd be easier to slap a magic tank in heavy armor, cause it defends magic better than robes even

my favorite version of a mage tank is dragon ages arcane warrior, btw, having a buff that allows it to use intellect as its str stat to wear heavy weapons and armor and limiting its max mp pool but allowing it to cast magic if it wants to go oomp. alot of this classes unction was to limit its mp pool for seemingly permanent buffs to tank better

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Arcane_Warrior

keep in mind they COULD do this for red mage, but the idea of a split jobs from a single class seems like a route they wont take again.
it would be a branching class femcer > Mystic knight (tank) Redmage(dps) post 30 would be the transition between caster blasts, or more enfire/barrier abilities. I dont see them doing this though. But i think it could work and would make the community less divided with the tank/dps redmage, id probably main and gear both even if their basic skllset was similar

[Fevelle]

If Samurai isn't a DPS I'm quitting this game for a whole ten minutes.

If Red Mage is a tank, I'm doing the same!!!

[Welsper59]

If there is one thing i have leares through all of these SAM DPS/ Tank threads it's this: The vocal majority would rather bastardize the concept of a real world warrior culture that for generations held up fundamental ideals of honor, sacrifice, and duty to others before and at the cost of their own lives (Bushido being not unlike a Knights Chivalry), for the sake of less role responsibility in a fantasy based mmo ...

The saddest part? In wanting to play the fantasy of a Samurai, they want to cut out a Samurais role in not only real world history but established fantasy aswell. The reason we don't have a sword DPS is simple, the sword iconography/ symbology denotes a hero. By all means prove me wrong, pictures of swords through the back are welcome, particularly Samurai attacking the enemy From behind.

Well if you really want to go into the history aspect, many of them were VERY corrupt, particularly the ronin, towards civilians. Just like today, it wasn't exactly uncommon for civilians to hate the "police" for their treachery. Being power hungry was probably a much greater occurrence then, than it is now. There were no doubt very chivalrous or honorable samurai, like we see in movies or read about in stories, but there were absolutely very corrupt ones. They were human, after all. The same can be said for European Knights. So... I mean, a sword spilling innocent and dishonorable blood isn't exactly a farfetched idea for the "honorable" samurai class. Nobunaga is a pretty common go-to, though his extremely evil portrayal in modern stuff isn't exactly historically justified. His deeds were great, horrific in some cases (like the slaughtering of women and children), but great.

Hell, my mention of the ronin and common manipulation of history in fiction is actually enough of a reason to argue for a DPS label lol. Unless this game is trying to be factitious in recreating point for point historical themes, they don't exactly have to follow IRL history. Truth be told, the game would be boring as **** if I had to sit through history class again.

[MomomiMomi]

If you're going to play a samurai, you must follow the code. Just as knight (Paladin) must.

[Shippuu]

Hell, my mention of the ronin and common manipulation of history in fiction is actually enough of a reason to argue for a DPS label lol. Unless this game is trying to be factitious in recreating point for point historical themes, they don't exactly have to follow IRL history. Truth be told, the game would be boring as **** if I had to sit through history class again.

The thing is, this game isn't going to implement such unsavory representations of any archetype. We are the heroes. As you pointed out European Knights could be just as corrupt yet we play a very honorable and chivalrous version of them because that's the job fantasy. Warriors share similarities with vikings and barbarians yet our job fantasy of them took a shift in 3.0 to them being strongest when in defense of others. Dark Knights who wield darkness were made defenders of the downtrodden, fighting against corrupt officials. The rogue's guild has a very strong moral code and are basically a secret police keeping more unsavory pirates in check. Of all the jobs only black mage is of any kind of dubious-ness and even then you're fighting against more evil people while proving that black mages don't have to be destructive war mongers.

If they go the ronin route it would be more seven samurai than anything in terms of job fantasy than any kind of murderous assassin. And even then, the ronin archetype is not how samurai has ever been portrayed in a Final Fantasy game. Any time it's been there it's been specifically NOT called samurai. So if they do add that archetype they better damn well not call it samurai so we can get a proper tank samurai later

[Shippuu]

"slap" a shield on? They usually come with a shield across all numbered final fantasies tho?

Many jobs can equip shields across Final Fantasy games. Even Samurai has been able to equip shields in pretty much every iteration of game they've been in. Shields have never been a part of red mage imagery and the only time you'll find images of them actually having shields in FFXI. That doesn't mean they can't have them but it's just not really a part of their "look".

[Welsper59]

The thing is, this game isn't going to implement such unsavory representations of any archetype. We are the heroes. As you pointed out European Knights could be just as corrupt yet we play a very honorable and chivalrous version of them because that's the job fantasy. Warriors share similarities with vikings and barbarians yet our job fantasy of them took a shift in 3.0 to them being strongest when in defense of others. Dark Knights who wield darkness were made defenders of the downtrodden, fighting against corrupt officials. The rogue's guild has a very strong moral code and are basically a secret police keeping more unsavory pirates in check. Of all the jobs only black mage is of any kind of dubious-ness and even then you're fighting against more evil people while proving that black mages don't have to be destructive war mongers.

If they go the ronin route it would be more seven samurai than anything in terms of job fantasy than any kind of murderous assassin. And even then, the ronin archetype is not how samurai has ever been portrayed in a Final Fantasy game. Any time it's been there it's been specifically NOT called samurai. So if they do add that archetype they better damn well not call it samurai so we can get a proper tank samurai later

Yeah, I mean backstory is no doubt going to be all "friendship conquers all" and "good > evil" sort of direction for everything lol. That's just the very child friendly atmosphere the majority of this game entails. That's where the manipulation bit comes into play. Focus on the good, rather than the bad. To the point though, it's really hard to argue conclusively that SAM is better suited for one role over the other.

Bushido itself is not exclusive to working the mindset of this games tank role over DPS. Soldiers/warriors and war don't exactly exist separately. The blade and form is designed to strike and kill your opponent in one move, meaning in game terms, massive damage, as is the teachings of the importance of your strike with RL Iaido, which follows samurai combat prowess and psychology among other forms. Through this skill, they fight to protect. So the philosophy to protect is "tank"-like but the actual combat is DPS. Given that we have DPS jobs that are of moral code to fight to protect, it isn't a one-way philosophy exclusive to tanks. Even the FF series has made connection to Iaido, although obviously fictional lol.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were to add SAM, be it tank or DPS, that they called it Ronin (RON) lol. Our characters are more wanderer than serving a lord/master, sort of deal that's why. I really don't care which role the job takes, since I can see it being a tank, but I've seen and played it as DPS. Both works perfectly fine.

[MomomiMomi]

The blade and form is designed to strike and kill your opponent in one move, meaning in game terms, massive damage

Then we've got this guy over here...