Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

[zosia]

This puts the lie to all the statements I keep seeing about raiding for the challenge and not rewards.

Show me where I said that raiding was all about the challenge? Let me save you the search, I never have.... soooo alll you are really doing is taking my PERSONAL INDIVIDUAL statements and using that as some silly trump card against raiders in general. /golfclap

[loreleidiangelo]

Show me where I said that raiding was all about the challenge? Let me save you the search, I never have.... soooo alll you are really doing is taking my PERSONAL INDIVIDUAL statements and using that as some silly trump card against raiders in general. /golfclap

To be fair, it IS an argument that is frequently bandied about whenever non-raiders accuse raiders of wanting things made more difficult or outright inaccessible to other players simply to feel superior: "I don't NEED that; I raid for the challenge, and to have fun with my friends". Well, that might be true, but I do think that a lot of it is that feeling of superiority and exclusivity, as well. I don't think there's anything to be ashamed about by admitting that, though. Even if it's "just a video game", a Savage-clearing raider was able to do something that 90% of this game's population cannot (or will not) do - I don't think it's wrong that they want something that distinguishes them, something that identifies them as a skilled player in this game where pushing random buttons in an inconsequential order will still likely get you through almost all of this game's content.

[B0YRaNmA]

Show me where I said that raiding was all about the challenge? Let me save you the search, I never have.... soooo alll you are really doing is taking my PERSONAL INDIVIDUAL statements and using that as some silly trump card against raiders in general. /golfclap

Calm down there...all Cakekizyy was saying is there a lot of comments out there, not specifically by you, but other raiders, that stats that challenge was enough of a reward.

[zosia]

Calm down there...all Cakekizyy was saying is there a lot of comments out there, not specifically by you, but other raiders, that stats that challenge was enough of a reward.

We saw how SCoB savage played out, We saw how Gordias and Midas savage played out. This notion that challenge is the only sustaining motivation needed for savage raids is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. Cakekizyy literally added nothing of value by pointing out that some raiders say that while contrasting that point with my statement.

There are raiders that raid for the challenge, but lets be real, raiders raid for a host of reasons.

I am tired of people like cakekizy painting in broad strokes to demonize raiders that are asking for better rewards.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/264391-Raider-to-Non-Raider-an-exhibition-on-thoughts-and-misconceptions?p=3345981&highlight=misconceptions#post3345981

I have tried the kindly in-depth nuanced approach a long time ago. Now, after seeing how those concerns went unaddressed despite presenting them over a year ago, I couldn't care less about being pleasant. So, If I see a bad point, full of bad assumption/s or misconceptions, I am gonna point it out in the most blunt manner and then I may have a chuckle at the expense of poorly supported opinions.

Many casual players spat in the face of raiders, like myself, when we saw the storm coming with alex savage. I am just returnintg the favor now as this game sinks father and farther into obscurity.

[B0YRaNmA]

We saw how SCoB savage played out, We saw how Gordias and Midas savage played out. This notion that challenge is the only sustaining motivation needed for savage raids is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. Cakekizyy literally added nothing of value by pointing out that some raiders say that while contrasting that point with my statement.

There are raiders that raid for the challenge, but lets be real, raiders raid for a host of reasons.

I am tired of people like cakekizy painting in broad strokes to demonize raiders that are asking for better rewards.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/264391-Raider-to-Non-Raider-an-exhibition-on-thoughts-and-misconceptions?p=3345981&highlight=misconceptions#post3345981

I have tried the in-depth nuanced approach a long time ago. Now, after seeing how those concerns went unaddressed despite presenting them over a year ago, I couldn't care less about being pleasant. So, If I see a bad point, full of bad assumption/s, I am gonna point it out.

I see and understand...but taking it personally will just gives you more stress.

Its an after effect of what was used to white knight the game.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Snip

Unfortunately, 10% only accounts for a very small fraction of the community. Raids are not cheap content to develop and barely anyone participates. Their incentive to focus on raiding just isn't there. While you can cite innumerable flaws, few companies will take the initiative because it isn't profitable. Why cater to the 5-10% and hope that number grows, when you can cater to the greater majority and be reasonably assured they will stick around? Now that doesn't mean SE won't devote time to improving raids, but I doubt it will ever be a focal point.

And you "spitting in the face" of anyone only means whatever point you attempt to make will be further glossed over. One of the primary reasons I suspect the devs don't tend to look at these forums is because we're generally quite aggressive towards each other. You can only call someone an idiot or entitled so many times before they just stop hearing whatever you say, regardless of its merit.

[zosia]

Unfortunately, 10% only accounts for a very small fraction of the community. Raids are not cheap content to develop and barely anyone participates. Their incentive to focus on raiding just isn't there. While you can cite innumerable flaws, few companies will take the initiative because it isn't profitable. Why cater to the 5-10% and hope that number grows, when you can cater to the greater majority and be reasonably assured they will stick around? Now that doesn't mean SE won't devote time to improving raids, but I doubt it will ever be a focal point.


And you "spitting in the face" of anyone only means whatever point you attempt to make will be further glossed over. One of the primary reasons I suspect the devs don't tend to look at these forums is because we're generally quite aggressive towards each other. You can only call someone an idiot or entitled so many times before they just stop hearing whatever you say, regardless of its merit.

Calling people names is against the forum rules, I don't do it. I only mock ideas and points. I have news for you, raiders are not the only people leaving this game. Midcore and casual players are running out the front door too, and you can count on Legion to capture many of those disappointed FFXIV players.

The best part is I don't have to prove anything to you people. I get exactly what I want out of this situation, I get to see that I was right as this game crumbles on all fronts.

Again, I will say this like I have said in this thread several times. How do you expect to keep midcore and casual players hooked into the end game? None of the rewards in this game compel players (Casual, Midcore, and HC alike) to stay subbed.

The entire reward structure is so bad that all content, regardless if it's good or not, will only be relevant for a few weeks, then people just stop logging in. This problem occurs because the rewards from the top down suck. You can't make compelling midcore and casual rewards if the rewards from savage are not even compelling.

This reward problem will continue to be a catalyst that disincentives content until there are no players left, regardless of play style.

When everything is a participation ribbon, people stop caring. When people stop caring, they unsub. This game IS LoTRO Reborn

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Calling people names is against the forum rules, I don't do it. I only mock ideas and points. I have news for you, raiders are not the only people leaving this game. Midcore and casual players are running out the front door too, and you can count on Legion to capture many of those disappointed FFXIV players.
The best part is I don't have to prove anything to you people. I get exactly what I want out of this situation, I get to see that I was right as this game crumbles on all fronts.

Again, I will say this like I have said in this thread several times. How do you expect to keep midcore and casual players hooked into the end game? None of the rewards in this game compel players (Casual, Midcore, and HC alike) to stay subbed.

The entire reward structure is so bad that all content, regardless if it's good or not, will only be relevant for a few weeks, then people just stop logging in. This problem occurs because the rewards from the top down suck. You can't make compelling midcore and casual rewards if the rewards from savage are not even compelling.

This reward problem will continue to be a catalyst that disincentives content until there are no players left, regardless of play style.

When everything is a participation ribbon, people stop caring. When people stop caring, they unsub. This game IS LoTRO Reborn

And those same players will come back when 4.0 launches. You cannot compare arguably WoW's biggest expansion in years, at least in terms of noteworthy progression, to a patch cycle. Midcore and casuals aren't "running" either. We've seen fairly standard drop off rates for a game undergoing a content drought whilst other major titles have been released.

You keep them by dedicating resources to content they like, Incidentally, that means the devs should strongly consider abandoning hardcore raiding entirely because it just isn't drawing enough interest. Sure, rewards could be better, though I still feel a bigger issue is they've missed the mark on more than a few occasions this year. (Looking at you Verminion and Diadem.) Raiders still have their individual achievements stamped on when they earned them. Granted, it isn't much of a reward, hence this could use a restructure, but it is there. Personally, I would like to see EX Primals and Savage synced, so you could never overgear it.

In any case, you'll be disappointed because won't ever go F2P nor will it crumble. At least not in the sense of "shutting down."

[zosia]

And those same players will come back when 4.0 launches. You cannot compare arguably WoW's biggest expansion in years, at least in terms of noteworthy progression, to a patch cycle. Midcore and casuals aren't "running" either. We've seen fairly standard drop off rates for a game undergoing a content drought whilst other major titles have been released.

You are ASSUMING they will come back, I am not so convinced. This game is not wow, It does not have the same pull to bring back large chucks of previously disappointed and disenfranchised players.

You keep them by dedicating resources to content they like, Incidentally, that means the devs should strongly consider abandoning hardcore raiding entirely because it just isn't drawing enough interest. Sure, rewards could be better, though I still feel a bigger issue is they've missed the mark on more than a few occasions this year. (Looking at you Verminion and Diadem.) Raiders still have their individual achievements stamped on when they earned them. Granted, it isn't much of a reward, hence this could use a restructure, but it is there. Personally, I would like to see EX Primals and Savage synced, so you could never overgear it.

You think that abandoning raiding could save this game? Have you heard of Lord of the Rings Online? They did exactly what you are suggesting and it killed their game. I HOPE Yoshida takes on your suggestion, it would only make what I want happen faster.

In any case, you'll be disappointed because won't ever go F2P nor will it crumble. At least not in the sense of "shutting down."

We will see I grow ever more gleeful with every census, with every bit of bad news, with every "I am quitting thread"

I think you misplace your confidence with this dev team, They keep missing the mark, again and again and again and again. I literally feel like comcast guy from southpark, lol. I mean, if I am wrong, so be it, at least the raid team I leave behind will have a game to enjoy. If I am right, I get to see a game go up in flames while being vindicated. I don't really have much to lose here, heh.