Thread: Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

Originally Posted by Velhart

And where is this idea coming from that raiding is the only content in the game? 95% of this game is catered to the casual market. If raiding is the one thing that they feel they could not do, then besides that and Primal EX, every piece of content is catered towards casual for them to play. I have a hard time believing they would leave over it. It certainly wasn't an epidemic in 2.0. Raiders on the other hand will easily leave over poor raid structure like we have currently and they have. Midcore scene is in really bad shape and some notable world/server first groups have disbanded.

For Alexander? No. Nobody cares about that story for the most part. But consider if Coil and Alexander were swapped; difficulty and all. A greater number of people would be pissed off a major story element was gated behind exceptionally difficult content. This can lead to unsubs because frustration overtakes enjoyment if those people do attempt Savage, only to get crushed over and over again. You're more likely to win those players back, however if what they like is gated behind stuff they don't, it will drive them away. Otherwise, we agree. The midcore is where SE needs to find a compromise, and could actually put the storyline. Even more casual centric players can push themselves to that level a challenge. Unfortunately, Savage essentially goes from 6 to 11 with no in between. I wonder if they couldn't stack the difficulties on one another. Normal mode gets increasingly harder; with Brute Justice serving a EX Primal equivalent or thereabouts, then segue that into A5S and scale up from there.

Originally Posted by Archaell

One of the main issues with savage in my opinion is that the content is both hard and basically static locked. Meaning that the progression is close to impossible outside of the static groups, and I am talking about loot restrictions not knowledge of fights, which is one of the main reasons behind the low percentage of players even trying it.

What would you think about this:

1. The savage being free of all the weekly loot restrictions.

2. The savage floors being added to the game gradually instead of at once.

Basically something like this: 3.4 A9S and A10S added, 3.45 A11S added, and lastly 3.5 A12S added to the game.

It would be still time-gated but in more accessible way while allowing easier movement of people between the groups.

Without weekly restrictions, people will farm within a few weeks and have no reason to continue subbing. Some people even had the god awful 210 Anima step down within a few days, though that was hardly the norm. Point is, Square has to gate content, lest we all consume it far too quickly. Making the Savage floors themselves "time gated" still leaves that hole in between A11S and A12S.

Originally Posted by Synestra

But i always tought raiding was teamwork content you do with friends or atleast it used to be, i mean wheres the fun doing that stuff with peoples you dont know at all?

Right now you need exactly 8 same people to do the content with at the same time. You get as much raiding time as these 8 people are able to meet up. If one person clears the content outside of the group the group gets rewarded with less loot - slowing down the group's progression and making the rest of the team hostile, so this person can't sub anywhere else decreasing the chance for the other people to clear the content.

Raiding outside of the static groups creates problems, replacing missing people even when the other 7 can raid creates also problems, and forming statics compoused of more than 8 people to get more raiding time is punishing the overall progression of the group.

The result is that players are locked inside of the statics and that is bad.

For example our FC has two statics right now. Due to the loot restrictions when someone is missing in the static 1 the raid has to be either cancalled or some random person with similar progression found somewhere else - even tho there would be xx other players from the static 2 able to sub for the missing person were they not loot locked to their own static group...

This is a huge problem which should be fixed to make raiding more accessible.

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Without weekly restrictions, people will farm within a few weeks and have no reason to continue subbing.

That's why I suggested to add the floors through patches instead of at once - making sure that the players stay sub in a different way. Basically cutting that big hole at the end of the season and putting the pieces between the patches.

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Aye. But like I said, there is still too much of a gap. Patch 3.5 would not release until at least two months following 3.45. And with Savage, itself, lasting a full six months. Raiders would be better off waiting a few months since they have no need to worry about missing gear for a week.

What about adding achievements for each floor and nerfing the older floors slightly when the new ones are added? Raiders usually hate clearing nerfed content so it should motivate them to stay subbed.

Originally Posted by B0YRaNmA

1. Though they will need to remove all weekly loot restrictions for other dungeons also...

In my opinion removing the loot restrictions only in the savage content would be one of the biggest motivations for the players to do it - so removing the loot restrictions in the easy content would be counterproductive.

Originally Posted by B0YRaNmA

Calm down there...all Cakekizyy was saying is there a lot of comments out there, not specifically by you, but other raiders, that stats that challenge was enough of a reward.

We saw how SCoB savage played out, We saw how Gordias and Midas savage played out. This notion that challenge is the only sustaining motivation needed for savage raids is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. Cakekizyy literally added nothing of value by pointing out that some raiders say that while contrasting that point with my statement.

There are raiders that raid for the challenge, but lets be real, raiders raid for a host of reasons.

I am tired of people like cakekizy painting in broad strokes to demonize raiders that are asking for better rewards.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/264391-Raider-to-Non-Raider-an-exhibition-on-thoughts-and-misconceptions?p=3345981&highlight=misconceptions#post3345981

I have tried the kindly in-depth nuanced approach a long time ago. Now, after seeing how those concerns went unaddressed despite presenting them over a year ago, I couldn't care less about being pleasant. So, If I see a bad point, full of bad assumption/s or misconceptions, I am gonna point it out in the most blunt manner and then I may have a chuckle at the expense of poorly supported opinions.

Many casual players spat in the face of raiders, like myself, when we saw the storm coming with alex savage. I am just returnintg the favor now as this game sinks father and farther into obscurity.

Originally Posted by zosia

We saw how SCoB savage played out, We saw how Gordias and Midas savage played out. This notion that challenge is the only sustaining motivation needed for savage raids is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. Cakekizyy literally added nothing of value by pointing out that some raiders say that while contrasting that point with my statement.

There are raiders that raid for the challenge, but lets be real, raiders raid for a host of reasons.

I am tired of people like cakekizy painting in broad strokes to demonize raiders that are asking for better rewards.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/264391-Raider-to-Non-Raider-an-exhibition-on-thoughts-and-misconceptions?p=3345981&highlight=misconceptions#post3345981

I have tried the in-depth nuanced approach a long time ago. Now, after seeing how those concerns went unaddressed despite presenting them over a year ago, I couldn't care less about being pleasant. So, If I see a bad point, full of bad assumption/s, I am gonna point it out.

I see and understand...but taking it personally will just gives you more stress.

Its an after effect of what was used to white knight the game.