Thread: Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

I don't see the problem.

I honestly cant understand why they introduced the raid loot lockout feature when i was under the impression it was supposed to change whether people could re participate(remember first coil locked you out of participation in the previous turns if you cleared, or even so much entered a higher instance with someone whose progress was further) but then the incentive for going back is less loot upon clear or no loot if a couple people have done it before for the week, which would make bringing someone who cleared undesirable at the least, its strange to me as it seems illusory compromise at the least. Ir seems like a very unattractive feature even when introduced as now you can go back and help people with the content sorta

Originally Posted by ADVSS

I honestly cant understand why they introduced the raid loot lockout feature when i was under the impression it was supposed to change whether people could re participate(remember first coil locked you out of participation in the previous turns if you cleared, or even so much entered a higher instance with someone whose progress was further) but then the incentive for going back is less loot upon clear or no loot if a couple people have done it before for the week, which would make bringing someone who cleared undesirable at the least, its strange to me as it seems illusory compromise at the least. Ir seems like a very unattractive feature even when introduced as now you can go back and help people with the content sorta

I blame that on loot lock out being a thing before raid was introduce. Then to be fair, they stick to the same formula.

Originally Posted by ADVSS

Ir seems like a very unattractive feature even when introduced as now you can go back and help people with the content sorta

Because if you're struggling to find people who haven't yet cleared it, you may be perfectly happy with 1 or 0 chests when you just want the weekly page. If the restriction was "you can't look if you have your weekly clear" but still had the same number of chests, it would make run selling much more popular (guaranteed 2 drops for the carried).

A little small thing about 4.0. The best it will do is bring big fancy new things that each patch -typically- does. It will maintain some interest before people just unsub until the next big thing. Until SE wishes to change their plans(which Yoshida already mentioned sticking to), then you're just going to lose people gradually. Though this is no guarantee it's going to bring back all the people they lost each patch(I didn't really bother coming back for events or POTD for example). Not really a good thing for a sub MMO. The game is only good as a new player. Once you reach the end, there's nothing for you there. At all. Just idle waiting. I hate telling people that when they ask me if the game is worth investing in.

This from the developers is pretty disappointing, my entire FC used to raid Coil both because of the awesome story and the gear, but for Alex they never saw the point as having that gear wasn't enough incentive.

Hi everyone!

I am not really here to give opinion of how dev should handle all this raid stuff, but I still wish to give my feelings toward this situation.

I have read all pages of this thread, and I understand fears from both sides.
Yet, what I am going to say won't please many players here, but...
There is to be a gap between players that are dedicating theirselves to raiding and others. It is not a bad thing, it does create a motivation to push yourself further. Yet in FFXIV we are in some sort of carebear land where no one should feel better than any other player... well... it does not work.
Turn it in every way you can, no matter ilvl or melding you can have, most of raiders ARE better than the average playerbase. Limiting their ilvl won't change anything at this, dumbing down rotation won't change this either. By restricting their progression, the only thing that occurs is to cut the will to progress to every other players. Why bother being good? you will get the same stuff anyway without effort.

I perfectly understand casual players fear of being left behind, still, even though I cannot raid anymore because of irl reasons, I (we) do not deserve having the same level of power as raider have.
Back in the time of the first Coil, I saw a Paladin with Allagan armor chest, one time in Mor Dhona, when I was still doing my Curtana. When I saw this piece of armor, I knew I wanted to get my hand on it. And guess what, I set my shyness aside, I searched for a roster, I joined one, I entered Coil and... it was worth every piece of effort I put into this. Allagan set was totally awesome looking, unique compared to every other gear set avaible at that time, and the way to acquire it was even better.
Having something to work for IS the best way to keep a solid player base in a MMORPG. And guess what, awesome and powerfull gears are one of the biggest carrot that exist. Story works well too if it is interesting and feels like you really did something amazing.

I see many replies like raiders are too few to be catered too... that's partially true. The fact has been already stated, this is this "few" that have the most impact one the whole game community. They are the one who make the economy flourish, they are the ones who draw people toward the end of the game, thy are the ones who guides news players, they are some kind of a beacon of what awaits players in the end game. They are the players that make the world alive. Cut them down and you shoot a bullet in to your feet. No more econmy, no more guides, only a bunch of random strangers that dwell in DF without any goal.

With this new meta of the MMO when you have to rush to max lvl to enjoy the game, end game must have even more attention when developping content than anything, because you will be stucked here very soon. I spoke of Lineage II earlier, and that was not to mention it randomly. This game had an insanely hard leveling, not much other words to say it. Yet, since your firsts levels you had raid bosses, and even the lowest lvl player had an impact on high level gaming due to the extremely complex guild system in place. So the whole interest was spreaded in all the player experience. Now these days are over and we are pushed to max lvl in less than a month. If there is no valid progression when here, no sense of accomplishment, no envy toward the best players... then what is the point ?

I really don't get that mentallity of everyting should be awarded to everyone.
No it must not!
Breaking the value of effort is the worst thing ever. When noone can feel "special", then no one is special. Still, this is this kind of players that drive everyone toward endgame.

Besides, one of the most present idea I see is that content is "locked" behind savage or hard stuff... I never saw such a wrong statement!
Content is absolutly NOT locked behind Coil or Savage or anything.
REWARDS are locked behind it.

The content is here and nothings prevents you to make party to try it and discover it. Yes, the actual system in place is awfull and don't do any good to that by preventing new players to have any reward if experienced players come along, still, you can try and make discovering parties. I mostly see antisocial behavior preventing a lot of players doing the content.
I know Alexander savage is a failure. No striking story like Coil, no great gears, no better savage rewards, no incredible design either... Just bland boss fights. The firsts coils were amazing because they were unexpected and tied to the most important story of the game. it felt gigantic and dangerous. Every step in Coils was a reason to make another one. It was gorgeous. Even now I'm only logging to try to have players getting trough it becasue I think it is still the best content made in this game.

I always see casual spitting in raiders face. But you know what raiders wants?
They wants you to enjoy the same content as them. they wants you to feel satisfied with your character, with your rotation, with your numbers... They wants you to overcome your fear of raiding and join them in theses fights. Sure it is actually hard to step in it due to many stupid limitation. (seriously there is a weekly loot restriction in 24 players raids, it should be easy to adapt it to the savage raid scene! ).
But, I say it again, raiders doesn't want to have casuals "locked out' of content and feel unique, they wants casuals to join them in this content and enjoy the same thing!
Because when you overcome the most difficults things, passing on this knowledge is the ultimate state of accomplishment.

Look at what these filthy raiders did for the whole community: they created parsers (you can think what you want about this, it IS a good thing to improve and motivate), they create video guides to help newcomers to try on hard content,they made guides about each class rotation, they create gears calculators, they search for what could be BiS and share, they make most of your gathered items worth anything. Have they ever asked for something in return? No. They does it because they want everyone to enjoy and step in the most hardest content. They does it because there is a whole amazing potential of content EVERYONE is stripped of because of that mentality of I want everything without effort.

Sure there is some bad apples everywhere, still, please understand that even if sometimes it is not well formulated, it is always more pleasant to play when players give their best. When everything is handed down without any effort, well, no one will put efforts. And this is precisly what raiders put fingers on.
This sentence is for devs : how do you feel, knowing that almost all the stuff you worked hard on, is not even remotly considered as much of your playerbase is watching TV while doing dungeons ? The more SE will cater to the lower denominator, the more their work will be worthless.

You know what could have been awesome? Adapting Coil to Heavensward level. And keep Allagan gears relevant ilvl-wise. This way, we would not had to throw our hard gained Wyrm gear for some easily earned gears. It does not change much when in leveling because of synch, but then we would have felt awarded for that hard victory against Bahamut.
I will keep saying it, Coil was the best content ever made in this game. If you didn't want to do it, then you dont deserve things that were gained through it. Because it was your choice to not even try. Because except for the lasts turns, progressing into Coils was not hard, it only asked for a bit of effort and communication, and tries. And it could be made even with only one evening per week of tries. Nowhere was it writen you had to complete the whole thing in less than a month. it was made to last for 6 months.

Destroy raiding scene, and you destroy your game. They may be the least present players, but they are the few that make the game alive. And it has always been like this in MMORPG.