Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

[Musashidon]

We have very different definitions of "screw over"...

in the end gear is all that matters, it's why the players allow (except for the one completely against cash shop) minions/mounts/glamour be in a cash shop but not meaningful gear because besides the few who actively like p2w most people like having the best gear be it earned through hard to get methods or easily gotten methods.

you really think most the player base would be fine with taking away what they already have?

IMO at least...

why must all games end game work exactly the same? it's not like this game hid the way it worked as this has been the way of the game since launch, other than the story being put in a easy mode.
why ask a game to stop being the game it is?

because it's the game you like but you want it to change? what about the players who doesn't want that change? they should just get over it?

[Nalien]

you really think most the player base would be fine with taking away what they already have?

Oh it's too late to make any changes for 3.0... What I'm saying should apply to 4.0 onwards, if I make examples with 2.0/3.0 content, then they're just that, examples. I'm not suggesting that anyone lose any of their current progression, I'm simply suggesting future content have multiple paths of progression, rather than one... I'd rather have a casual and hardcore progression path, that are tuned to those types of players, and hopefully works, than have a single progression path that tries, and fails, to please both sides...

why ask a game to stop being the game it is?

If I order some food, and it comes without a particular condiment I like, I will ask for that condiment. I still like the food plain, but I'd rather have it with the condiment. Same thing... I like XIV, I'd like it more with a superior progression system...

what about the players who doesn't want that change? they should just get over it?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This forum is here to gather feedback... My feedback is that I'd prefer a different progression system. I'll keep telling SE that until I get bored and quit. I would hope for actual discussions, if I propose a different progression system, I'd hope for "I don't like that because", and that back and forth can hopefully refine an idea to better please both sides... Not that I expect that from these forums... Much more likely people will just start insulting each other over stupid labels like "hardcore" and "casual"... Again, I'd like to remind you I'm suggesting two independent progression paths for casual/hardcore players from the side of a casual player...

I'd rather has casual progression be casual progression, while hardcore progression is hardcore progression... Both can be tailored to please their particular demographics better, win win... Instead we have a single progression system that aims to please both sides and fails... What reason do you actually have to stand against such a suggestion? If it's not better for casuals as well, please do enlighten me as to why...

[zosia]

Oh it's too late to make any changes for 3.0... What I'm saying should apply to 4.0 onwards, if I make examples with 2.0/3.0 content, then they're just that, examples. I'm not suggesting that anyone lose any of their current progression, I'm simply suggesting future content have multiple paths of progression, rather than one... I'd rather have a casual and hardcore progression path, that are tuned to those types of players, and hopefully works, than have a single progression path that tries, and fails, to please both sides...

This is really how it should be. Obviously nothing can be changed for Heavensward, but in 4.0 there needs to be two progression paths for raiders and non-raiders. The path for raiders should always result in higher livls and I hope that SE is observing the many replies in this thread stating how poorly the rewards for alex savage have worked out.

You know it's bad when lead developers from other games have called out Yoshida on the poor rewards for savage.

Players wanting easy raid ilvl gear are akin to an unaccompanied child in a candy store. They don't understand that binge themselves on sweets is a bad thing. Easily obtainable max ilvl gear negatively impacts rewards from all types of content, casual and HC alike. This practice hurts the game, and the people defending it don't even realize it.

[Musashidon]

If I order some food, and it comes without a particular condiment I like, I will ask for that condiment. I still like the food plain, but I'd rather have it with the condiment. Same thing... I like XIV, I'd like it more with a superior progression system...

choosing to eat food with or without condiments doesn't effect other people though, while choosing one or the other systems does.

the decisions is more like asking a taco bell to stop selling taco's and make pizza's because you can't give the best ilvl gear to raiders without taking the best ilvl gear from the rest of the players.

Instead we have a single progression system that aims to please both sides and fails.

how do you know it fails to play both sides? you may speak for yourself but you cannot speak for everyone.

sorta like i could be completely wrong in the idea that most players would be against the idea of giving raiders the best ilvl.

the only way to truely know is for them to give the raiders the best ilvl gear and see what happens.

if I propose a different progression system.

but there is only two proposed progression systems

1 the way we have it now everyone equal

2 raiders always get the best.

[Nalien]

You know it's bad when lead developers from other games have called out Yoshida on the poor rewards for savage.

Lol, that's happened? Damn, that sounds like an interesting read...

I think Yoshida is just grossly mistaken in why people don't get into raiding... It seems he thinks gear is the main hurdle, so he gives everyone gear... It isn't though, finding a group is the main issue... Honestly, I'm incline to blame the Duty Finder for that... I brought it up back in beta, but the Duty Finder is ultimately a very anti-social tool... It's definitely useful, but ultimately it gives people very little reason to form any friendships in game, after all we can all just queue up on the Duty Finder to get stuff done with people likely not even on your server... To really do raiding though, you need a solid static group... You're basically left shouting for random people, which can be very unreliable, and most people don't even know how to do that because the game has held their hand with the Duty Finder since day 1... They've never even considered forming a static, so that becomes the hurdle when raiding requires one... Then SE puts outdated content onto the Duty Finder, but there is such a sudden spike in "difficulty" that it's just impossible... Raid content requires communication, yet the vast majority of Duty Finder parties? You'll be lucky to even see a "Hello", and you certainly don't need everyone pulling their weight...

It's a problem with the difficulty curve honestly... Arguably Normal/Savage could help a lot with that, but then we just come back to the problem of motivation; Why do Savage when you've pretty much gotten all the rewards from Normal?

Ideally, they should have a casual progression path that, by the end, has prepared people such that they should have a decent chance against the raid content... Right now they're effectively doing that with gear, I imagine Gordias will be much easier with i260, but gear is meaningless if you don't know how to use it... There just isn't much of a difficulty curve in this game, what little is there is either backwards, or frequently gets nerfed down... Two progression paths, with the casual one slowly ramping up? That could be great... By 4.5 the casual path could have actively prepared people for the start of the hardcore path, then you've just given casuals more content to try out... Meanwhile the hardcore crowd has just been enjoying that content all this time anyway... Hard to achieve that currently though, given the difficulty curve for Alexander is wobbly at best, and the rewards just actively undermines the concept of a difficulty curve; We'll all be i250 soon, why would be do Gordias for i210? You can't have a difficulty curve when content is actively skipped like that...

[Zojha]

I'd rather has casual progression be casual progression, while hardcore progression is hardcore progression...

Wouldn't, then, the best way to facilitate that be to separate the two entirely and make gear that can only be used in either content, casual or hardcore? From what I read in the last 2 pages, you are not actually suggesting to separate the two or make them independent, but rather to just plainly put the latter more ahead of the prior, which doesn't solve the issue you point out, as it's still just one progression path - it just stops earlier for casuals.

[Cakekizyy]

I wonder how much bickering would be solved by getting rid of raiding.

[Remus]

I wonder how much bickering would be solved by getting rid of raiding.

Woah now... That is just asking for them to lose quite a bit of subs. Even though they are not the majority, raiders leaving could lead the game in a bad direction I think. There are quite a few features which are driven by raiders like the economy. Most of the items which people make are generally for end-game raiding like food, pots and crafted gear.

Also I am sure they look at raiders quite a bit when it comes to class balance as well because most raiders play the job at its peak.

[Archaell]

I wonder how much bickering would be solved by getting rid of raiding.

I wonder how many things would be solved were the item levels removed from the game.

All the characters would have to do content at the same stat levels. The players would need to learn and do mechanics coz the gear would be only for the glamours. No more stupid gear checks. The game would need to be actually fun to keep players playing instead of the capped and gated tomestone slavery...

[Yeol]

Better gear = better stats = better dps (even If it's just by a bit)
Try running a dungeon with everyone weaing average IL set and then do it again with people with higher gear set. See which run will be faster and smoother.

Niddhog extream for example. If all dps had the good gears and weapons + know their jobs. It can be done with 3 dps instade of 4.
Heck there is a video with 7 tanks and 1 healer clearing it. (all wearing heigher than avergae sets)