Thread: Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

Originally Posted by Istaru

I don't know what caused you to feel the way you do. I do hope that one day you open your eyes and see certain types of people are not all as bad as you think they are.

i never said raiders can't be helpful but harmony as a whole? no, as people has stated if the challenge of the end game raid was all that was needed then there would be no issues because who cares about gear right?

there are toxic players on both sides be it casual or hardcore, but that has nothing to do with my statement.

my statement is about one player base feeling they deserve to be better than the other and won't accept it any other way *i need a higher ilvl than you to show you i did this or else it's pointless to do*

heck there were suggestions for titles, minions, mounts, but the only one that truely matters is ilvl *showing off the better equipment*

Originally Posted by Musashidon

no one should be a special snowflake but someone should be a special snowflake.

there can never be harmony between the two groups, one wants to be better than the other.

risk vs reward, this game has no clue of that concept. That's the problem.

Originally Posted by Musashidon

i never said raiders can't be helpful but harmony as a whole? no, as people has stated if the challenge of the end game raid was all that was needed then there would be no issues because who cares about gear right?

there are toxic players on both sides be it casual or hardcore, but that has nothing to do with my statement.

my statement is about one player base feeling they deserve to be better than the other and won't accept it any other way *i need a higher ilvl than you to show you i did this or else it's pointless to do*

heck there were suggestions for titles, minions, mounts, but the only one that truely matters is ilvl *showing off the better equipment*

At the end of the day, many raiders care way more about performance, not some cheap vanity frills that are subject to subjective taste. Why do you care if a raider has gear 10 ilvls higher than you? How does that impact your game play? For a raider, they will take that extra 10 ilvls into the next raid tier, there is a purpose for that difference.

Why does it matter to you so much that you get equal gear for much less effort?

Originally Posted by Jynx

Then why have normal mode if you can just "Watch the cutscenes" the "Story is the Reward" is why all the people unable to even play the original coil are grasping so desperately to the story they get.

It feels cheap to watch the cutscenes on youtube because you didn't earn them.

Coil felt accessible to anyone willing to try and earn the story, Savage Alex is a different beast from standard coil at least in my experience.



Let's just take you for your word that "Raiders" are the toxic element of the community. Even then (Which it isn't because people are toxic regardless of skill level) Even if that's the case the so called Toxic community is also the one driving the game forward.

Who buys your crafted gear?
Who buys your farmed materials?
Who buys your consumable items?
Who buys the expensive materia?
Who pushes people to their pinacle in the game?
Who releases the guides you watch on youtube?
Who drives the developers to make sure the game doesn't become cookie clicker 2.0?

The hardcore dedicated long term players are those should drive the game and help guides the communities evolution, even in this baren landscape of XIV devoid of community it's still these types of players who go the extra mile to help others.

Raiders and the like aren't monsters the same way casual players aren't out to ruin the game. Balance in everything, harmony will ensue, but the game is leaning far too heavily towards one crowd and it's making the more dedicated players feel like they have nothing to strive for, no reason to go on.

That's my take on it at least.

No one needs to be a special snowflake, but at the same time this game shouldn't be the equivalent of a participation award where you get rewarded just for showing up.

Absolutely yes. You better elaborated the point I was trying to make earlier. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Until people rage quit at T9 because of the dozen different instant wipe mechanics. And if you dare question that brick wall in the middle of the story, the same kind that ruined Chains of Promathia in XI, the "hardcore" become very defensive.

That's what causes raiders to give off a toxic impression, especially when considering how that same general arrogant mindset made the end of the long grind in XI seem like a cruel letdown instead of any actual true feeling of reward.

But....Alexander is not a main scenario quest story. It is a side story that it ultimately not relevant in the grand scheme of things. Coils you can kind of argue since it was tied to 1.0's main scenario, but that was ultimately a side quest story also.

Not to mention, CoP missions were not actually that hard. FFXI's difficulty lied more in inaccessibility and hard time putting together groups. A lot of people were able to clear the content in a small amount of time, especially when the content first came out. Only fight I can think of that felt like a real wall was Ouryu.

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Also, in terms of clear rate in Savage. Isn't it being a low percentage...a good thing? I can understand if the content is unfairly balanced and not fair, but Midas despite being mechanic heavy, is still a fair tier. Most MMO's do not get over 10% of clears on their hardest content unless the game was built to be easy.

If you want higher percentage clear rate on Savage, then you need to have content that properly works you into it. Other MMO's pull this off easily, but SE has the hardest time doing this. It is either content that is so easy that you can get carried and not even need any relevant gear to win, or very difficult in Savage. There is little to nothing that gets you ready for it. Learning curves are needed, not adjustments to Savage raid.

If dungeons kept it's difficulty level similar to 2.0's Amdapor Keep and Wanderer's Palace before their nerf (where not too difficult to overcome, but still have to think and perform mechanics and properly coordinate with your group), relic quests that have meaningful content, 24-man raids kept a difficulty similar to Weeping City, made Alex(Normal) at a maybe slightly less harder than FCoB mode(one that gear in time can make much easier), then Savage mode that really tests your skills.

Just because someone may be a casual player, doesn't mean they want it easy. They just want the content to be accessible. That is FFXIV's greatest strength and instead of trying to make things challenging despite having a nice accessibility structure, they decide to dumb down content each patch just so they can see numbers rise. I'm not saying everything needs to be difficult either, but they need to do a much better job at motivating players to get better. Because besides Primal EX and Savage raids, there is absolutely no reason to.

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Until people rage quit at T9 because of the dozen different instant wipe mechanics. And if you dare question that brick wall in the middle of the story, the same kind that ruined Chains of Promathia in XI, the "hardcore" become very defensive.

That's what causes raiders to give off a toxic impression, especially when considering how that same general arrogant mindset made the end of the long grind in XI seem like a cruel letdown instead of any actual true feeling of reward.

idk I'm a raider and I think T9 was completely awful and a huge mistake.

I'd rather do any savage alexander fight a thousand times then ever touch that abomination again.

Just goes to show that even something as great as coil can have mistakes.