Unofficial Census 2016 for FFXIV

[Remus]

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I see people say this but if you don't raid what do you need top tier gear for? I find it very confusing because any MMO I have played I never see people complain about them not having access to raid level gear when they don't raid. You say its screwing people over but how? If your not raiding then you don't need the highest item level in the game. You don't see people complaining in WoW saying "oh i don't raid but i want mythic gear". They won't give it because players who don't raid and only do LFR (in this case for FFXIV 24 mans and primals maybe) don't need it and they always keep them behind to keep raiding appealing in some form of way.

Then people say on the FFXIV forums that those who want raiding to always be top ilvl elitist or entitled or how they want to be a special snowflake which I find just very strange.

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People did coil for the story and and there was only one difficulty so this got people raiding. Now that there is normal mode people don't need to do savage and the raid has lost its appeal to people because people can do normal mode and the gear looks exactly the same. People find different things fun. Some enjoy raiding for the loot and some enjoy it for challenge or even both. You can't say they were not having fun purely because they stopped because loot was bad because maybe they enjoy getting amazing epic loot from raids.

[Musashidon]

Then you need just, you know ... raid?

That's like definition of raiding - to have means to be better than anyone and to have unique loot. If "raid" doesn't satisfy those 2 conditions, then it has no meaning and no reasons to do (exactly what we have in FFXIV).

no the definition is to do challenging content as a group.

the reward is based on what the game deems it to be. like in 2.0 raids gave the same exact gear as tomes did but then up'd the ilvl of the weapon by 5 to appease the raiders alittle.

I see people say this but if you don't raid what do you need top tier gear for?

it's a video game noone needs gear neither you nor me, but we all want it.

as long as it gets them more subs they are going to keep letting people stay as strong as raiders.

[Vantol]

If you and your 54 friends that all stopped raiding during Alex for it not being rewarding enough, what were the big rewards in Coil that kept you all enraptured that Alex currently lacks?

First to say Yoshida promised Coil gear to be still relevant in 3.0 and also promised ilvls to slow down, so we thought we can just get to 60 and raid Alex in Coil gear (eh?). And second, the real problem, no one expected SE to drop "unsync" thing on us. We spent sooo much time beating Savage Coil to have those unique titles till the end of game. Now anyone can have it, no value in it.

Exclusive access to the Coil story, arenas and bosses?

That too. What's wrong with exclusive content when you put so much time and work into getting it?

[Alym]

People did coil for the story and and there was only one difficulty so this got people raiding. Now that there is normal mode people don't need to do savage and the raid has lost its appeal to people because people can do normal mode and the gear looks exactly the same. People find different things fun. Some enjoy raiding for the loot and some enjoy it for challenge or even both. You can't say they were not having fun purely because they stopped because loot was bad because maybe they enjoy getting amazing epic loot from raids.

But the "epic loot" is still possible. It was still the highest ilvl obtainable all through 3.2 and the weapon in A8S is still generally better than anything else you can get. Alex offers the same reward structure as Coil. Raiders lost nothing. If people do normal and say "good enough" they probably didn't enjoy raiding, they just wanted to see the story. Alex normal is a good thing for that reason. It makes it so people don't have to do something they don't enjoy but are able to see things they do, e.g story.

Raiders lost nothing with Alex normal. Everyone else gained something with Alex normal. The reason Alex Savage is failing is simply because people aren't enjoying it. Savage mode dug its own grave.

[Remus]

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I'm not saying you can't get gear. You can get new pieces of gear but it shouldn't be on the level of raid gear. You shouldn't be rewarded the best loot for pretty much doing nothing except expert roulette and 24 man raids. You say it gets them more subs but currently there has been a decline so are they really getting more because of that? Raiders are leaving the game and Yoshi-p has said clearly he wants to make the raid community grow. If Raiders leave the game that means they are losing subs and with each patch cycle it seems the amount of people at current content is becoming smaller.

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Here is the problem though, It may have the highest item level for 3.2 but people already know they can get the highest by just waiting until 3.3 which makes people not bother for savage. The weapon might be 5 ilvl higher but people are not going to go through A8S just for 5 ilvl when that is just 1 weapon damage. You say Raiders lost nothing but your incorrect they lost exclusive story for raiding. Some people enjoyed raiding and progressing through coil to enjoy the story. Also if people are happy with just story why not just have Savage release first with story but then release normal mode in the catch up patch because that is all they care about.

[Musashidon]

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in the end if gear should or shouldn't be better in raids all depends on the player some people think you should some don't, noone is right and noone is wrong it's an opinion.
nothing to really keep saying on the matter of who deserves what.

now sub wise yes casuals will always greatly out weigh hardcore/raiders so appealing to them will always get you more subs and that is what se is doing.

that doesn't mean they can't change/won't change but atm and for the last nearly 3 years now they have been going with that.

[Vantol]

it's a video game noone needs gear neither you nor me, but we all want it.

Also "It's just a video game" is such a poor excuse. I also pay taxes monthly and buy food to keep on living, as everyone else. And as everyone else (or most of us) I want mansion on my own island or whatever. But it would take me my whole life to get enough money for it. So I choose to lower my standarts and do other things. It's same for top gear - if you want it so badly - put your life into getting it. If you are not ready for such sacrifice, then stop saying that every person must have that island, it's not for everyone, just as top gear.

[Musashidon]

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not all games are the same if you want a game that gives you the best items for the hardest content there are those out there, SE can change it eventually but atm no.

bringing up the real world has no help as, if everyone was rich no one would work and then well...we all know how that goes, but look atm raiding is only gets you 5ilvls on your weapon and everything is fine.

[zosia]

no the definition is to do challenging content as a group.

the reward is based on what the game deems it to be. like in 2.0 raids gave the same exact gear as tomes did but then up'd the ilvl of the weapon by 5 to appease the raiders alittle.




it's a video game noone needs gear neither you nor me, but we all want it.

as long as it gets them more subs they are going to keep letting people stay as strong as raiders.

Well, we lost over half the raiding community within a year, I think it's time to start examining why raiders keep leaving this game. As much as you want to believe it, the incentives are not there and it's costing this game subs.

[Thayos]

Thayos understood the point I was attempting to make. Since Mythic having better rewards than Savage doesn't result in a higher clear rate, it seems like a lack of rewards from Savage probably isn't the explanation for its low participation rate.

Ha, the other guy was speaking about your post with such a tone of authority, I assumed it was he who wrote it.

Glad to know my assessment of your post was correct.

And yes, I agree. Increasing the rewards for raiding might cause more raiders to raid, but the only two things it will do for the other 95 percent of the playerbase is Jack and *@%#, and *@%# left town.