DPSing as a healer

[Seoulstar]

But that is an actual job. You're paid to do that. FFXIV is a video game, you play it to have fun. Being bossed around by people isn't really my idea of having fun. I don't think someone is going to pay a sub just to be told what to do and be yelled at if they just so happen to not want to. It's not like they're intentionally wiping the party, or harassing a player. They just simply don't want to do one thing that does not have a major affect on the party. I'm starting to wonder where is that other person. Who wants healers to dps, but actually gave advice as to how to ease their way into it and realize just how fun it can be. That is a perfect example as to how to ask people to do something that will help the team. Maybe that healer won't dps during that dungeon. But eventually they may think on it and maybe actually try it. That's what happened to me and I've be dpsing as a healer ever since. Thankfully I talked a person like that as compared to a lot of people in this thread.

[Reinha]

Or, you can just sit back and do nothing, because, after all, that is THEIR job and NOT YOUR job.

That's a good comparison. Unfortunately there are two types of people: those who need a demanding boss or the risk of unemployment to feel motivated to do more than is required of them, and those who are motivated internally and want to contribute more. There is not much past upbringing that can change the work mentality of a person. It's a shame because attitudes have an effect on productivity both at work and in game.

[amihavingfunyet]

You want to know what runs have taken the longest to clear from my experience? It's always been the ones where the healer is too focused on DPSing and not healing accordingly. Tank drops, they drop, and then we wipe. The game makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that heals ALWAYS comes first. If someone drops while you're DPSing, you're NOT doing you're freakin job. And the evidence is right there on the floor next to you waiting for a rezz. In runs where the healer only heals, it hasn't even got close to the 90 minute mark. Ever.

You seem to be under the misconception that I said it's the healer's fault if a run takes 90 minutes. All I said was that if you do the bare minimum as healer (keeping everyone alive), why should anyone else do more than their bare minimum (clearing a dungeon in 90 minutes is the bare minimum set by SE since there is no other DPS checks in dungeons).
And please, to have a dungeon run take less than 25 minutes you surely dont need "optimal" play.

[CookieMonsta]

Today im going to just hold aggro as a tank and not dps.

Flash ftw /tenchar

[Gemina]

You seem to be under the misconception that I said it's the healer's fault if a run takes 90 minutes. All I said was that if you do the bare minimum as healer (keeping everyone alive), why should anyone else do more than their bare minimum (clearing a dungeon in 90 minutes is the bare minimum set by SE since there is no other DPS checks in dungeons).
And please, to have a dungeon run take less than 25 minutes you surely dont need "optimal" play.

That is exactly it. I don't expect anyone to do more than the bare minimum to complete an instance. That's the disconnect here. You guys do. I don't. But I do expect them to do at the very least, the bare minimum. A lot of players literally do the bare minimum to clear an instance, and it still gets cleared. Simple as that. Again, I am there for the clear, and if this is not happening then we need to start looking at what the hell is going wrong here. I have zero control over how another player chooses to play their job, but I do have to ability to vote kick a player who is not doing the bare minimum, and it will be clear to myself and others that they are truly making things more difficult. A healer who is healing, a tank who is holding aggro. Why on Earth would a vote kick these players? They may not be making the run faster, but they sure in hell are not making the run harder.

[Gemina]

Here is how I see it.

Imagine you work at an store and your job is to answer customer's questions.
You have a steady stream of customers, but you are doing your job so well that you've handled every customer's request completely and the store is currently empty.
Now you have some free time.

You KNOW that some other people at your office could use some help with other things though, and you DO have the knowledge and skills to help them.
(Just like a healer has plenty of DPS skills.)
You KNOW that helping them with their job during your free time will make the office more efficient overall.
(Like a healer DPSing would making killing mobs faster and dungeon runs quicker.)
Now, you could use your free time to help other people do their jobs too. After all, it is within your ability to do so.

Or, you can just sit back and do nothing, because, after all, that is THEIR job and NOT YOUR job.

Let's imagine your boss came to you and said: "Hey, I see that you have completed all your work for the moment and you look like you have some free time on your hands. Would you mind helping Bob out with his work? We'd finish a lot faster if you did. But if a customer comes in with a question, you can prioritize them."
(Just like a healer can prioritize heals when necessary.)

Would you say "No. Why do I have to help Bob? That's not MY job. Why should I have to help other people with their jobs? I have my own job to do." (Except right now there is nothing for you TO do)
Because if you said that, not only could you forget about a promotion, but you're likely to be laid off.

I can't even imagine someone saying "Why should I have to do that? That's not my job" at an office.
If you have time to help others to make things go smoothly, especially when you and everyone else knows you have the ability to do so, then there is no reason why you shouldn't.

If I were a boss, I would expect my employees to always be doing something to help the company run efficiently.
Anyone who is sitting around doing nothing while others are working is doing nothing but waiting to be replaced.

A great analogy. It does make a lot of sense, but a big difference here is that you work with these people every day, and the goal is to sustain and prosper the business. This is not the goal of DF. If I was a regional sales manager and I have to go to another store to fill in for another manager for that day, all I can expect from people I don't know and will never see again is that they are doing their jobs.

Expectations like this, I hold for my static and nothing more.

[KaitlanKela]

Gemina,

I have come to appreciate your viewpoint. Your argument is basically that this is a game on the internet, you should keep your expectations nice and realistic for the context (i.e. low). It's fair. The gaming community is full of lazy people because this is what they do for fun. Many people don't wanna put forth effort when they're trying to have fun. They just want a nice, relaxing, laid-back experience. Furthermore, if the run is taking 90 minutes, it's clearly more than just the healer doing something wrong, so that's not even a good standard. Also, people are allowed to make mistakes. How else do they learn and push the envelope of what they are capable of?

The problem with this is we're really not trying to address the lazy people who are just gonna be lazy. We are addressing the misconception that standing around doing nothing because you've kept the party at full health is GOOD. It's the bare minimum. The bare minimum is not good. Going above and beyond is good. We are simply trying to encourage people to go the extra mile. Generally people who come to the forums do care about the game a lot. I'm inclined to think that there's a significant group of people who might be persuaded to try to use cleric stance if they thought it was necessary but they are currently convinced it's not. Encouraging people to grow as players in healthy for the community.

And if you can clearly distinguish between the healers that care and the healers there to be carried, you can feel a lot more confident when you vote dismiss one. Again, you may not do that, I may not even do that, but it's within someone's right to and we should be prepared for that inevitability instead of pretending like people are always going to play nice. Right now, if I see a tank or a dps spamming one skill or autoattacking/idling, I'm probably calling them out, even in the dungeon. I'm more lenient with healers because of this common notion that it's okay and they may legitimately not know. I'd like to get the information out there and level the playing field a little bit. The community (while it would be nice to) doesn't have to and shouldn't have to tolerate lazy play.

[mp-please]

FFXIV is a video game, you play it to have fun. Being bossed around by people isn't really my idea of having fun.

The fun argument doesn't work for this, you're literally idling half of the time and either looking elsewhere, straight out blanking out or pretending to do anything by running/jumping around or by spamming the hell out of heal. The last one can even be easily done with a macro to heal every 3/6 seconds.

And you did said yourself, xiv is a game and like every game it has its way its meant to be played. Healers are meant to stance dance just like brd/mch and tanks, you're only bossed around if you don't play the game.

[KaitlanKela]

It's also worth point out that this is a multiplayer cooperative game. A truly considerate person who was just looking for a leisurely pastime without any pressure to perform would be better off finding a single-player game in which their under-performance doesn't adversely affect the team's experience. That's like playing on a soccer team for fun, but not putting in full effort and being surprised and/or hurt when your coach and teammates are disappointed in you and tell you to do better. Sure, it's a game and its only for fun, but your team is still relying on you and there's an implicit assumption that you signed up to give your best effort.

[Subsonic_GFX]

i dont enjoy dpsing as a healer at all.