DPSing as a healer

[Gemina]

Just gonna throw in that it's also not required to mitigate any damage that doesn't oneshot you, or to do more DPS than what is needed to finish a fight/duty within a DPS check or time limit. Surely you don't mind 90 minute expert runs? After all that's the minimum requirement to clear them.

You want to know what runs have taken the longest to clear from my experience? It's always been the ones where the healer is too focused on DPSing and not healing accordingly. Tank drops, they drop, and then we wipe. The game makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that heals ALWAYS comes first. If someone drops while you're DPSing, you're NOT doing you're freakin job. And the evidence is right there on the floor next to you waiting for a rezz. In runs where the healer only heals, it hasn't even got close to the 90 minute mark. Ever.

You guys are talking about shaving three minutes off of a run. Three minutes? Oh woe is me, the horror that you have to spend an extra three minutes in a dungeon with your "bad" healer. I have had more fun in this game when things aren't so smooth, but people are understanding and working together. The derps are laughed off, and the players are actually talking to each other. Hell, some even stick around after the boss fight is over to socialize. No one even notices the time spent there. The most boring, chore-like runs for me are the ones that are ran in silence, and take 25 minutes or less. Those 25 minutes are the longest freakin 25 minutes lemme tell ya.

When I queue up, the goal is to get a clear. I don't go in thinking "This better not take any longer than 25 minutes." I go in knowing it may very well take a half hour or more to get that clear, because I KNOW that in DF, I can get any kind of player that exists out there. My expectations for optimal play lies with my static. Not players I don't know and will never group with again.

[AristocraticCorgi]

That's pretty much exactly what the zero DPS healers have said.
"I'm great at my job, really good at it" despite being objectively terrible.

A healer that can't effectively DPS while healing ain't a good healer by any objective measure.

[KaitlanKela]

However, in order to be respected as a player, and you know, a person? This respect should not be earned, because just by breathing we all should already have it.

Of course I still respect the person I vote dismiss as a PERSON. I just don't respect them as a PLAYER. Big difference.

Now, as i have said multiple times, I generally don't bring this up mid dungeon. I generally let it slide for the 40 minutes I'm with them. That's me respecting then as a person.

However when someone makes a big stink on the forums to try to excuse minimum level play as acceptable, to me that looks like a giant special snowflake temper tantrum and now I'm inclined to respect them as a player less.

[Gemina]

But why can't you just accept the fact that this is less that optimal play? Why can't you be like, "yes, I don't wanna dps, deal with it?" Instead you try to convince everyone that you're actually good at the game when you're objectively using less that half your skills on purpose?

Honestly, does your self esteem require that everyone approve of your decisions? Should it be not allowed for people to kick you for a deliberately chosen lazy playstyle because you need a safe space? If you wanna play this way, nobody is stopping you! Do it, but deal with the consequences if your group is less than impressed.

*Sigh* Have I not been shouting from the mountain tops that the bare minimum is the requirement to get through an instance? Yet somehow, what you hear is that I'm saying this is optimal play. What myself and others have been telling you is that optimal play is not required to make clears, and YOU HAVE NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to tell other players what to do. If this play is not acceptable for you, you can vote kick, or you can remove yourself. No one is forcing you play with players who don't/won't/can't perform to your standards. It's great when players strive to optimize their jobs and roles, and it's what separates the great players from all others whether they are bad, mediocre, or good. Not once have I said the bare minimum is optimal play. So just stop with shoving words in my mouth. Please.

Haven't been kicked once, and it's pretty clear when you group with me that I am mindful of everyone, and I don't need to slap on Cleric to do it. Anyone who can see past 'DPS or GTFO' should see that my arguments has EVERYTHING to do with being considerate towards others.

[KaitlanKela]

blah...

Nobody said it was okay to let people die, for one. This entire conversation is predicated on everyone being stable, but please continue to complain about irrelevant things out of context. Furthermore, and I absolutely abhorr this mentality, it's not automatically the healers fault when someone dies. The healer is not there to be your safety next so you can stand in aoe and fail mechanics. We're not there to babysit. Not to say it's never the healers fault, but it's certainly not a given.

So your second paragraphs argument is... It's not worth it to you to mitigate unnecessary damage by killing the mobs faster, so you choose not to. Fine. Buy not everyone is so patient and you can't force the internet to be patient when most of playerbase knows there's something more you can be doing.

[KaitlanKela]

Yes I can vote kick most of the time I won't buy sometimes I will, I reserve that right.

Some other people in this thread are saying that I cannot or should not be able to kick people for this. Sure it'll get you a clear eventually. It's the bare minimum but you'll clear so you can't kick.

No. A difference in playstyle is a valid reason to kick. The end.

[Gemina]

A healer that can't effectively DPS while healing ain't a good healer by any objective measure.

Not one time have I heard anyone bark at a healer for not DPSing either running as one or with them. When I have heard healers get barked at when running as one or with one: When the tank dies and/or they die and freakin Cleric is up. It drives people batsh*t. On the contrary, healers who let people die because they are too busy DPSing need to hang up their healers robe. They fail as healer.

[KaitlanKela]

I will say find it kinda odd that you claim your arguments are based on courtesy, but you flat out any that you don't care if the run takes longer or if you could contribute more. So, do only healers deserve courtesy, then? The dank and the DPS just have to deal with lazy play or else they're not being decent people? The double standards is strong with with one...

[KaitlanKela]

Not one time have I heard anyone bark at a healer for not DPSing either running as one or with them. When I have heard healers get barked at when running as one or with one: When the tank dies and/or they die and freakin Cleric is up. It drives people batsh*t. On the contrary, healers who let people die because they are too busy DPSing need to hang up their healers robe. They fail as healer.

Again with the letting people die and it automatically being the healers fault to the point that they fail and should quit. Again, who is saying letting people die for dps is okay? Nobody.

And should we just be assuming the the other players in our team are too stupid to work mechanics and not stand in aoe? Should we helicopter over them and babysit them and carry them because it's our sacred duty to let them be bad because they mustn't die for any reason?

[CookieMonsta]

Snip

Keeping people alive only is not bare minimum lol. Hell, I would prefer if the healer was spamming Stone WITHOUT cleric stance in between healing. Do you know why? because it tells me the player is actively engaged in the dungeon just as much as I am in either tank or DPS (i.e. keeping the GCDs rolling, THAT is the bare minimum expected). What people have been trying to tell you why ONLY healing is terrible is because you will have these massive stretches of time that you literally stand around and do nothing, either that or they are massively overhealing to no effect.