Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

[Zafrei]

"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?" You say:"Do long lasting content." What for? You already have the stuff, that was the premise!

This is where I disconnect from the whole 'we need new gear/levels regularly' argument. I play games for the experience. Likewise, in the mmos I play, I run dungeons, or do quests or whatever, for the experience.

If there's no new gear tier then it doesn't matter to me. I try something purely to have fun experiencing it. If I ding a level or pick up the new hotness which is 10 levels higher than the old hotness really doesn't add to my sense of achievement - purely completing whatever it was does that all by itself.

I'd rather they keep to the same tier - expand it horizontally if needs be. Just bring in alternatives to current equipment (mix and match the stats a bit) to create horizontal progression so it's optional while still providing reward.

[Velhart]

Do you not read things? Channels have alternate versions of the same open world. You get big competition on a big enemy? Switch channels until zero competition. You don't want to give it a chance? That's fine but don't alter truths to make your post seem you are right. Or that open world cannot be done right like my idea lays forth. Phasing works very well.

By saying this, you are already admitting the content has flaws and issues right out the door, and creating channels fixes that. If the content is as well balanced as you make it out to be, then that shouldn't be necessary to begin with.

Hunts are the worst example of open world done right, even XI got NMs better than this game and that game is over 10 years old. Phasing do you need it? Fixes every single argument you made in this post.

HNM Kings would like a word with you. FFXI was actually worse because it was claimed by one group, while several others sat there in hopes they die to it and get your chance to claim. People resulting to bots to get claims and some would cheat the system and get Fafnir/Nidhogg to flail the group. Open world NM's brought the worst out of people in that game, I watched it happen for nearly ten years. Even they created new conditions to pop them because of all the crap that happened with it.

Sure because team jump-rope and tedious done wrong mechanics make instanced content more interesting.

And a bunch of people zerging something on a open map is more interesting. Okay.

I could point out every flaw Diadem made but that would just turn into some way to skew the debate into "Open World has no place in an mmorpg because instanced is always more interesting and fair and open world content cannot learn from it's mistakes and advance in technology."

Open world content 100% has it's place, and I have heard several ideas on how you can improve it without conflicting with others or zerg fests. The ideas in this thread in particular want to have what is wrong with open world and why instanced content exists to begin with.

[Sandpark]

By saying this, you are already admitting the content has flaws and issues right out the door, and creating channels fixes that. If the content is as well balanced as you make it out to be, then that shouldn't be necessary to begin with.

Not exactly. It's just the truth of the matter. For the foreseeable near future, there is no way for there to be thousands of players in one instance, which is what an open world without channels and loading screens is.

Nor can a specialized instance house 2000 players at once with no one having performance issues. and make content challenging with no lag. That is the purpose of channels, not a question of balance.

HNM Kings would like a word with you. FFXI was actually worse because it was claimed by one group, while several others sat there in hopes they die to it and get your chance to claim. People resulting to bots to get claims and some would cheat the system and get Fafnir/Nidhogg to flail the group. Open world NM's brought the worst out of people in that game, I watched it happen for nearly ten years. Even they created new conditions to pop them because of all the crap that happened with it.

It had a claim system so at least there 200 hundred players could not zerg it. Again, a channel system or one with phasing is not a balance but a requirement so players like you do not have to partake in competitive PvE though others may opt in. And if XI had channels you could have 5-20 versions of the Open World so players could opt to fight in highly competitive PvE areas or go for a less populated version of the same open world area.

And a bunch of people zerging something on a open map is more interesting. Okay.

That is an issue with this game. No claim system and no channels or phasing equals If people can hit your enemy, then why wouldn't 100 people hit it too if they get a reward for it. Look at guildleves for an example of open world phasing. You can see someone fighting something you can't engage when out of their claim or party.

[Velhart]

Not exactly. It's just the truth of the matter. For the foreseeable near future, there is no way for there to be thousands of players in one instance, which is what an open world without channels and loading screens is.

Nor can a specialized instance house 2000 players at once with no one having performance issues. and make content challenging with no lag. That is the purpose of channels, not a question of balance.

Why can't it just be instanced then? How many channels can you create to accommodate the amount of people? How do casual players work in there when hardcore have the place taken over?

It had a claim system so at least there 200 hundred players could not zerg it. Again, a channel system or one with phasing is not a balance but a requirement so players like you do not have to partake in competitive PvE though others may opt in. And if XI had channels you could have 5-20 versions of the Open World so players could opt to fight in highly competitive PvE areas or go for a less populated version of the same open world area.

So players would have to look through 5-20 windows to try to get a claim? Sure that would end well. What you are describing is shutting people out of content due to the actions of others, which is not a good thing in my book. Hunts to an extent has a problem with that also.

That is an issue with this game. No claim system and no channels or phasing equals If people can hit your enemy, then why wouldn't 100 people hit it too if they get a reward for it. Look at guildleves for an example of open world phasing. You can see someone fighting something you can't engage when out of their claim or party.

Then you should ask SE to expand on the guildleve system in some way. Nothing wrong with that. Get whatever open world fix you want and it is not directly conflicting with others. Only real issue I see here that it would be more difficult to add unique mechanics to a open world guildleve boss due to where terrain you pop it. Unless SE has them pop in a specific location. Then again, that can easily be fixed by making it instanced similar to Aquapolis.

[Zojha]

[...]If I ding a level or pick up the new hotness which is 10 levels higher than the old hotness really doesn't add to my sense of achievement - purely completing whatever it was does that all by itself.

And then you have completed it and...then you need more content to complete. That would work really well, if the devs could actually create content as quickly as players can consume it. Unfortunately, what takes a week or more to create takes 30 minutes to consume, a few hours at best.

The only way out is repetition - which depreciates your experience/enjoyment of the content depending on its replay value. At some point, you're not going to bother anymore, because it's no longer fun. Normally no problem, except that other players depend on players doing that content to experience it for themselves - take the crystal tower raids, nobody did them anymore before the Anima and wait times could easily go to the cap and beyond, so newbies were unable to experience the content. In order to allow them this experience, SE needed to provide an incentive, because people didn't feel like doing it again, seeing as they have experienced it already.

I can see that attitude working out in PvP games, where every game is different and replay value is high - but in a PvE multiplayer game, it doesn't work quite as well, as every PvE encounter necessarily is scripted to a degree.

[odintius]

By saying this, you are already admitting the content has flaws and issues right out the door, and creating channels fixes that. If the content is as well balanced as you make it out to be, then that shouldn't be necessary to begin with.

ffxiv doesn't have flaws that's news to me so when they introduce or has emergency maintenance to fix bugs after releasing content on any online game if you actually read the patch notes at all, their not balancing or fixing known issues? The one thing you can count on is dev's to balance/fix things its always happening a never ending cycle you can count on to read in the next patch notes. Should they stop adding any content then if it not there 100% sure every player will accept it, are you saying their incapable of performing there jobs?

[Ilitsa]

Say what you will about me, but I'm having more fun in pre-patch Legion WoW than I ever did playing FFXI. Sometimes people like different things.

B-but my buttons! It's taking so much adjustment, DK got gutted pretty hard (I miss my Army of the Dead T_T), and that super annoying scream they do with EVERY. SINGLE. DEATH STRIKE.

On topic: As someone that actively plays both WoW, and XIV, they do have similarities. I wouldn't call XIV a "clone", though honestly. I can understand the desire to revisit the greater aspects of XI, but it's just not what this game's design team want, and that's perfectly ok in my opinion. Most people here will probably dismiss me entirely for being a wow player, but I think XIV has it's own set of aspects, both good, and bad, and that's perfectly ok.

[Sandpark]

Why can't it just be instanced then? How many channels can you create to accommodate the amount of people? How do casual players work in there when hardcore have the place taken over?

So players would have to look through 5-20 windows to try to get a claim? Sure that would end well. What you are describing is shutting people out of content due to the actions of others, which is not a good thing in my book. Hunts to an extent has a problem with that also.

I realize most of the core systems won't change now even if it were for the better of the game. So this thread is more about voicing my opinions rather than things changing. At most, I can hope for self contained content offering things of the open world variety.Don't worry about me or others, your static world is safe.

Idk about how many channels because I don't know the population of each server or what the cap is on a channel. Casuals who don't enjoy PvE vs PvE competition would obviously stick to instances or low population channels of open world content.

It could have a feature toggable such as <place me in x amount of population channel> in certain circumstances so you don't have to manually switch channels.

This realization is why I am asking for self contained content like I want below

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3809761

[Velhart]

ffxiv doesn't have flaws that's news to me so when they introduce or has emergency maintenance to fix bugs after releasing content on any online game if you actually read the patch notes at all, their not balancing or fixing known issues? The one thing you can count on is dev's to balance/fix things its always happening a never ending cycle you can count on to read in the next patch notes. Should they stop adding any content then if it not there 100% sure every player will accept it, are you saying their incapable of performing there jobs?

No one said FFXIV didn't have flaws? Seriously, what did you get out of what I wrote? "He is defending aspects of this game and opposed to my ideas, he must obviously be a white knight." The ironic thing is, I can write more about what I don't like about the game more than what I do like.

I am for them experimenting, but I am very sure they also know prior to their knowledge and experience what would obviously work and not work.

I realize most of the core systems won't change now even if it were for the better of the game. So this thread is more about voicing my opinions rather than things changing. At most, I can hope for self contained content offering things of the open world variety.Don't worry about me or others, your static world is safe.

And you are 100% entitled to your opinion and I don't think less of you for it. I just like debating for the hell of it. I only find the ideas misguided and troublesome, not stupid or not well thought out.

Idk about how many channels because I don't know the population of each server or what the cap is on a channel. Casuals who don't enjoy PvE vs PvE competition would obviously stick to instances or low population channels of open world content.

Some it may not be a big issue. Servers like Gilgamesh and Chocobo however would be terrifying.

It could have a feature toggable such as <place me in x amount of population channel> in certain circumstances so you don't have to manually switch channels.

Funny thing is, SE did make channels at the start of the expansion since so many would be on doing quests and such. Hunts popped in multiple channels and people were cramming in trying to get in on it. Results were....not good. It was only temporary till the game died down a bit.

[odintius]

No one said FFXIV didn't have flaws? Seriously, what did you get out of what I wrote? "He is defending aspects of this game and opposed to my ideas, he must obviously be a white knight." The ironic thing is, I can write more about what I don't like about the game more than what I do like.

I am for them experimenting, but I am very sure they also know prior to their knowledge and experience what would obviously work and not work.

Every content will have it good and bad points though meaning there always be flaws depending on the gamer playing it. I have played something I enjoyed but at same time can recognize certain flaws. Open world content does have it flaws yes I would like it more free company related though people do zerg hunts and fates come to mind, that would need to be addressed odviously.