Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

[Sandpark]

So your answer to the treadmill is keeping the same stuff for years no thanks.

Drivendawn plays XIV 10 years.
Istaru plays XIV 10 years.

Drivendawn gets recycled gear every 3 months for 10 years.
Istaru works at a gear that gets slightly under-powered every 12-18 months for 10 years.

Drivendawn gets their gear in 3 months, 3-6 months later his gear is obsolete.
Istaru gets their gear in 9-15 months of hard work, finally gets the gear which is relevant for 9-18 months after acquisition or a bit longer.

Which gear do you think is appreciated more and let's them enjoy relevant gear longer?

Who is more inconvenienced? The player not getting gear every three months in wider increments or the player having to recycle every 3-6 months to stay meta? Which is a more tedious process?

If they are both playing 10 years, which is better?

[Zojha]

Which gear do you think is appreciated more and let's them enjoy relevant gear longer?

And what does Istaru do in the 12-18 months after gear acquisition "with" said gear?

Play Overwatch...? Or do random roulettes for the lulz because he just loves doing the dungeons for the 247th time again?

[Sandpark]

And what does Istaru do in the 12-18 months after gear acquisition "with" said gear?

Play Overwatch...? Or do random roulettes for the lulz because he just loves doing the dungeons for the 247th time again?

Well it isn't Istaru's job to make long lasting content.

That would be on the shoulders of Square Enix who are more than capable of creating things like that. Just because everything is short and easy doesn't mean everything has to be.

[Zojha]

Well it isn't Istaru's job to make long lasting content.

:|

Pray tell, if people constantly measure the longevity of a piece of content by its relevancy to progression (by labeling content with inferior gear obsolete), what kind of content can possibly be "lasting" for a progression capped player?

I'm not surprised you don't name any content, because there IS no content that can fulfill those criteria. Don't be surprised if SE doesn't manage to please that, it's not possible.

[Sandpark]

:|

Pray tell, if people constantly measure the longevity of a piece of content by its relevancy to progression (by labeling content with inferior gear obsolete), what kind of content can possibly be "lasting" for a progression capped player?

I'm not surprised you don't name any content, because there IS no content that can fulfill those criteria. Don't be surprised if SE doesn't manage to please that, it's not possible.

The very game being discussed here did for a good 7-8 years... Certain gear acquired earlier could be relevant all the way to the level cap. And elder gear was modified to become stronger and stronger as newer more powerful gear came along.

SE has fulfilled that criteria, just not in this game so much....

I don't want gear or content being super relevant for 7-8 years or the lifespan of a game. But there is a middle place between the 3-6 months recycle and lifespan relevancy.

[Zojha]

Certain gear acquired earlier could be relevant all the way to the level cap.

Which is equivalent to Sastasha normal randomly dropping (wearable) i190 gear. You realize that?

Plus, that's entirely irrelevant to the scenarios we were discussing! You compared two scenarios, one in which a player gets progression capped in 3 months and has that gear become obsolete in 3-6 months and then another who takes ~9 months to be progression capped and have the gear become obsolete much later. So I raised the question: What does the latter player do in that long period where his gear is top?

The answer is simple: Nothing. And now you switch the topic to point out that the power budgets of items were completely arbitrary, which made older content relevant. Not only is that a somewhat questionable design choice in its own right, it is, again, not relevant to the question:"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?" You say:"Do long lasting content." What for? You already have the stuff, that was the premise!

[Sandpark]

So I raised the question: What does the latter player do in that long period where his gear is top?

The answer is simple: Nothing. And now you switch the topic to point out that the power budgets of items were completely arbitrary, which made older content relevant. Not only is that a somewhat questionable design choice in its own right, it is, again, not relevant to the question:"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?" You say:"Do long lasting content." What for? You already have the stuff, that was the premise!

Answer is simple but not nothing like you said.Easy, get gear for another job! Or add a merit/champion/open world system offering more than GEAR

And what I said is actually relevant. This is a "Make XIV like XI thread and less like WoW"

Also when content is really fun, the carrot is not always the major point of enjoyment. You ride a bike to enjoy riding a bike not the ice cream you eat after the ride. And before you flip it and say then quick recycled Ilvl or longer lasting tier gear shouldn't matter then.

I would say there that ilvl is like needing a new bike every three months or your speed dives downwards. Where as longer tiered progression is not needing the new bike as often but just adding amenities and sidegrades to it overtime.

[Shurrikhan]

Which is equivalent to Sastasha normal randomly dropping (wearable) i190 gear. You realize that?

I imagine it'd be more alike to getting gear from a challenge mode (e.g. with achievement) of a given 40-59 boss that either scales with you or just has some percentage bonus effect. Sadly no such things exist.

"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?"

That said, while "do it all again, for alt gear!" would be the obvious answer, I personally wouldn't want to go through all that for every alt. Worse, if the gear was actually that huge a bonus, I wouldn't feel like I'm really allowed to play my alts until I've done so. The latter is due to personal issues, a fear of being asked "where's you're god mode gear?" especially if followed with "are you joking? Get on your real job." So therein lies the ultimatum, do I want to grind for a year just to feel like I have the same options to me I had before, just to make a particular gearing task extra long both initially and finally (in which case my luck with RNG will make the process all the more exasperating) or do I want something that rewards more frequently, so I can less painfully bring my jobs (or at least my recent favorite of them) in line, although having to maintain them more frequently as well...

Ideally, I'd like for the initial task to be truly difficult, but undertakeable in steps, the RNG to be less the issue, gear usable across multiple jobs, and (and here's where the pipedream gets really obvious) the content to be enough fun in itself to run even after getting my loot. At worst, have a longer optional task thereafter, such as for an upgrade item. Running Levi Ex as a solo-queuer during the mirror farm time of night did that for me. Sure, the mirror drop would have been nice, but in the end I really liked the fight itself. I enjoyed coming home from university and just PuGing it for an hour straight to a playlist setup just before.

[Zafrei]

"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?" You say:"Do long lasting content." What for? You already have the stuff, that was the premise!

This is where I disconnect from the whole 'we need new gear/levels regularly' argument. I play games for the experience. Likewise, in the mmos I play, I run dungeons, or do quests or whatever, for the experience.

If there's no new gear tier then it doesn't matter to me. I try something purely to have fun experiencing it. If I ding a level or pick up the new hotness which is 10 levels higher than the old hotness really doesn't add to my sense of achievement - purely completing whatever it was does that all by itself.

I'd rather they keep to the same tier - expand it horizontally if needs be. Just bring in alternatives to current equipment (mix and match the stats a bit) to create horizontal progression so it's optional while still providing reward.

[Velhart]

snip

You need to acknowledge also that the people who played FFXI are not the same as the ones who play FFXIV. FFXIV is not filled with only once FFXI players. They consist of people who came from other MMO's, or new to the genre as a whole. You can't make the assumption that it will work because one MMO did it in the earlier 2000's.

Lets try this. Lets not involve FFXIV's current system. Lets say they revamp and give you the FFXI-2 you want. Lets say you are running the show here. How do you plan to have a system like this and keep all of the casual, midcore, and hardcore players? How will you convince the casual player base to commit to a level of hardcore to stay relevant? FFXI's set up was not in favor of casual players at all. So without saying "SE will figure it out", because they are clearly not, I want to hear how you will keep those numbers high, keep all three levels of play happy without them getting sick of it and leaving. Keep them entertained for years on certain pieces of content.

I would rather ffxi just get an overhaul and remaster. Change the combat system and make it a bit more faster paced. I'd quit in a heartbeat and join it. Yup.

Don't know if I go to that extreme, but it would be nice if FFXI got that UI revamp they have been talking about and a better resolution upgrade. Don't know if SE wants to invest in that however, especially with them working on the mobile version of the game. Certainly be nice though, they dropped the PS2/360 version, so the sky is the limit really.