Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

[Istaru]

Well it isn't Istaru's job to make long lasting content.

That would be on the shoulders of Square Enix who are more than capable of creating things like that. Just because everything is short and easy doesn't mean everything has to be.

I'm glad it isn't my job to do that. I didn't really intend to become a thing of sorts here but oh well. Fighting it will only make it worse.

Maybe I could work on other things for that 12-18 months? Overwatch wouldn't be one of them though, FFXV, FFVII and FFXII could be though.

[Sandpark]

Technically ilvl has always existed there, if the current model is anything to take away from how the old worked. There were clearly better stat equips of the same level, back then. Hell, the most obvious being the HQ equips. We were just never given the visual representation of it.

One HQ isn't a Ilvl. Ilvl raises incrementally every few months. If that were true there would be a Normal, HQ, HQ+1, HQ+2,HQ+3, etc, etc.

[Zojha]

Certain gear acquired earlier could be relevant all the way to the level cap.

Which is equivalent to Sastasha normal randomly dropping (wearable) i190 gear. You realize that?

Plus, that's entirely irrelevant to the scenarios we were discussing! You compared two scenarios, one in which a player gets progression capped in 3 months and has that gear become obsolete in 3-6 months and then another who takes ~9 months to be progression capped and have the gear become obsolete much later. So I raised the question: What does the latter player do in that long period where his gear is top?

The answer is simple: Nothing. And now you switch the topic to point out that the power budgets of items were completely arbitrary, which made older content relevant. Not only is that a somewhat questionable design choice in its own right, it is, again, not relevant to the question:"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?" You say:"Do long lasting content." What for? You already have the stuff, that was the premise!

[Sandpark]

So I raised the question: What does the latter player do in that long period where his gear is top?

The answer is simple: Nothing. And now you switch the topic to point out that the power budgets of items were completely arbitrary, which made older content relevant. Not only is that a somewhat questionable design choice in its own right, it is, again, not relevant to the question:"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?" You say:"Do long lasting content." What for? You already have the stuff, that was the premise!

Answer is simple but not nothing like you said.Easy, get gear for another job! Or add a merit/champion/open world system offering more than GEAR

And what I said is actually relevant. This is a "Make XIV like XI thread and less like WoW"

Also when content is really fun, the carrot is not always the major point of enjoyment. You ride a bike to enjoy riding a bike not the ice cream you eat after the ride. And before you flip it and say then quick recycled Ilvl or longer lasting tier gear shouldn't matter then.

I would say there that ilvl is like needing a new bike every three months or your speed dives downwards. Where as longer tiered progression is not needing the new bike as often but just adding amenities and sidegrades to it overtime.

[Velhart]

snip

You need to acknowledge also that the people who played FFXI are not the same as the ones who play FFXIV. FFXIV is not filled with only once FFXI players. They consist of people who came from other MMO's, or new to the genre as a whole. You can't make the assumption that it will work because one MMO did it in the earlier 2000's.

Lets try this. Lets not involve FFXIV's current system. Lets say they revamp and give you the FFXI-2 you want. Lets say you are running the show here. How do you plan to have a system like this and keep all of the casual, midcore, and hardcore players? How will you convince the casual player base to commit to a level of hardcore to stay relevant? FFXI's set up was not in favor of casual players at all. So without saying "SE will figure it out", because they are clearly not, I want to hear how you will keep those numbers high, keep all three levels of play happy without them getting sick of it and leaving. Keep them entertained for years on certain pieces of content.

I would rather ffxi just get an overhaul and remaster. Change the combat system and make it a bit more faster paced. I'd quit in a heartbeat and join it. Yup.

Don't know if I go to that extreme, but it would be nice if FFXI got that UI revamp they have been talking about and a better resolution upgrade. Don't know if SE wants to invest in that however, especially with them working on the mobile version of the game. Certainly be nice though, they dropped the PS2/360 version, so the sky is the limit really.

[Mycow8me]

I would rather ffxi just get an overhaul and remaster. Change the combat system and make it a bit more faster paced. I'd quit in a heartbeat and join it. Yup.

[odintius]

I would rather ffxi just get an overhaul and remaster. Change the combat system and make it a bit more faster paced. I'd quit in a heartbeat and join it. Yup.

If they did that I would most likely go back to it also

[Sandpark]

You need to acknowledge also that the people who played FFXI are not the same as the ones who play FFXIV. FFXIV is not filled with only once FFXI players. They consist of people who came from other MMO's, or new to the genre as a whole. You can't make the assumption that it will work because one MMO did it in the earlier 2000's.

I acknowledge that not everyone comes from the same gaming background.

Lets try this. Lets not involve FFXIV's current system. Lets say they revamp and give you the FFXI-2 you want. Lets say you are running the show here. How do you plan to have a system like this and keep all of the casual, midcore, and hardcore players? How will you convince the casual player base to commit to a level of hardcore to stay relevant? FFXI's set up was not in favor of casual players at all. So without saying "SE will figure it out", because they are clearly not, I want to hear how you will keep those numbers high, keep all three levels of play happy without them getting sick of it and leaving. Keep them entertained for years on certain pieces of content.

I don't want an XI-2 though. If my want was the deep I would just want a HD reboot of XI. Short answers? And I refer to the segregation in terms of playstyle not skill.

Gametime:
Casuals want short game sessions and total playtime.
Midcore want short-medium game sessions and total playtime.
Hardcore want moderate to long game sessions and total playtime.

Skill based:
Casual want light difficulty and easy to understand systems.
Moderate skill wants moderate difficulty and doesn't mind deep complex systems as long as it isn't extreme.
Elite players want extreme difficulty and want all the complexity possible, don't even mind looking stuff up to be the best.

Interaction:
Casual likes no tedium and straightforward.
Midcore likes no tedium but can live with some if if feels rewarding.
Hardcore like no tedium but would trade all the comforts if the game opened up it's systems.

Short answer?
Make content for those three groups.



I probably could If I could dedicate all my focus to that goal but developing isn't my primary job.

[Shurrikhan]

Which is equivalent to Sastasha normal randomly dropping (wearable) i190 gear. You realize that?

I imagine it'd be more alike to getting gear from a challenge mode (e.g. with achievement) of a given 40-59 boss that either scales with you or just has some percentage bonus effect. Sadly no such things exist.

"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?"

That said, while "do it all again, for alt gear!" would be the obvious answer, I personally wouldn't want to go through all that for every alt. Worse, if the gear was actually that huge a bonus, I wouldn't feel like I'm really allowed to play my alts until I've done so. The latter is due to personal issues, a fear of being asked "where's you're god mode gear?" especially if followed with "are you joking? Get on your real job." So therein lies the ultimatum, do I want to grind for a year just to feel like I have the same options to me I had before, just to make a particular gearing task extra long both initially and finally (in which case my luck with RNG will make the process all the more exasperating) or do I want something that rewards more frequently, so I can less painfully bring my jobs (or at least my recent favorite of them) in line, although having to maintain them more frequently as well...

Ideally, I'd like for the initial task to be truly difficult, but undertakeable in steps, the RNG to be less the issue, gear usable across multiple jobs, and (and here's where the pipedream gets really obvious) the content to be enough fun in itself to run even after getting my loot. At worst, have a longer optional task thereafter, such as for an upgrade item. Running Levi Ex as a solo-queuer during the mirror farm time of night did that for me. Sure, the mirror drop would have been nice, but in the end I really liked the fight itself. I enjoyed coming home from university and just PuGing it for an hour straight to a playlist setup just before.

[Zojha]

And what I said is actually relevant. This is a "Make XIV like XI thread and less like WoW"

Oh what you said is relevant to the thread - just not to the point I was making.

Gearing another job is already what people can do right now, "if" they do it - many don't and that's exactly why we have so many people complaining. We could have six additional months between upgrade patches and it would allow you to gear most of your jobs with the current tomestone system. Great, right? Except people who only play one job moan and unsub for that time because "there's nothing to do!"

The bottom line is, the progression treadmill needs to keep running, because people enticed by progression stop playing if it doesn't. And whether you regularly replace gear or progress otherwise doesn't really matter. We could also just keep increasing the level cap and work off XP. Gear is just easier to handle.