Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's casual indeed. Social, not so much.

Hate to say it, but... welcome to gaming in the 21st century. There is a reason Pokemon Go is considered such a cultural phenomenon. People simply aren't interested in being forced to interact outside their discretion. In fact, games that have attempted it often see limited success if any whatsoever. That is in large part because people can be unreliable. I, personally, do not want a game where I have to be social in order to progress. Few people will organize groups for content. They'll merely play something else. Hence why MMOs do not force social interaction; only encourage it. A big turn off back in FFXI was being required to party at early levels lest I get annihilated by a buffalo. I'll make friends at my own leisure, thank you.

FFXI suffered from a complete lack of balance. Certainljobs were unquestionably superior and if you even attempted to deviant from the preferred norm, you would not get invited to parties. This nostalgia obsession with FFXI is simply that: nostalgia. If SE ever did implement some form of horizontal progression in FFXIV, it would inevitably be grinded down to what is mathematically best and any other weapon variance would be relegated to obscurity.

[Shurrikhan]

If SE ever did implement some form of horizontal progression in FFXIV, it would inevitably be grinded down to what is mathematically best and any other weapon variance would be relegated to obscurity.

It's not as if that wasn't the case in FFXI already. It's a matter of degree, mathematically, more than it is a difference in any two communities. As you said, XI suffered from a lack of balance. Much of the rigid requirements are only product of that. Some choices were just that inferior. Balance could have avoided that.

If two weapons are more than some 10% apart in output, you'll see vocal community preference towards the better. But inversely, at some point approaching equality both become acceptable. "Horizontal" progression as a 'this is best for this fight', etc. paradigm, where each fight may require gear from a number of others just to be permitted entry, is not really horizontal so much as it is simply many vertical paths. FFXIV could already accomplish this by simply having any second means of achieving a certain level of gear at a certain difficulty. For "horizontal" progression to be truly as named, there needs to be elements of wide access, and/or each of these fights requiring X, Y, and Z gear, must also have a sense of vertical progression between them, allowing you choice of progression paths. If, regardless of overall ilvl, each fight requires very particular prior progression, it just becomes a winding, but still basically singular, road.

Probably the biggest reason we haven't seen hint or trace of horizontal gearing in XIV is that it's not a particularly efficient model. In the end, it's something that allows choice, which means allowing people to potentially skip content you've spent resources to create. If weapon A is as good as weapon B, within whatever precision or playstyle you're likely ever to use either for, there's no real reason to gather weapon B.

And that's not even mentioning how little playstyle variance XIV makes available, even if gear were crucial to that. Aside from Bard and SCH Crit, Speed is about the only the stat with a visible effect on one's rotation, and the latter, sadly, suffers from oversights that condemn its balance anyways.

[Iromi]

. I, personally, do not want a game where I have to be social in order to progress. Few people will organize groups for content. They'll merely play something else. Hence why MMOs do not force social interaction; only encourage it. A big turn off back in FFXI was being required to party at early levels lest I get annihilated by a buffalo. I'll make friends at my own leisure, thank you.

May I ask why play a Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Game then? I am not trolling or trying to be rude/attitude, I am genuinely curious. I find it to be like me with my work..if I told the director "I want to act in this play, but not in front of people, only people I choose at my leisure. " >.>

I do like encouraging social interaction though...but hmm, being social to progress...

I find a lot of the people in these games struggle with that, so I don't think many would progress. As for me I love being social, it comes naturally and super easy to me. As an extrovert I'd love for more social content but this game really lacks that aspect..and the linkshells I am in really show that. 90% of the folks in this game I have come across are extremely socially awkward. I always feel bad for them but dunno how to help them..anyway, sorry to ramble but yea I am curious...

And anyway I wouldn't expect a game to help someone overcome their social issues. But who knows..anything is possible?

The arguments you guys are bringing up are kind of making me cringe.

Like, the main reason the overworld is as static as it is isn't just to make the game "easier," it's to accommodate several different type of players by allowing them to go at their own pace.

And considering the potential challenge of duty quests/dungeons, there is already potential challenge in the game as is. The difference, here, is that the challenge is shifted into the right areas.

It does not really accommodate me..and my friends we kind of enjoy having to fight our way to places and work together. There could be some serious strongholds with good rewards and chests in there that you have to farm keys for. That would be fun.

Sure, some places can be ezpz, but we need a few zones where you need a group to get through, or at least 2 of ya. I think the main reason the overworld is boring (or low level mobs that do nothing rather) is because of the money. People would unsub if they had to actually work together or try to get somewhere. I wouldn't want the whole world like that..that would be annoying, but at least sometimes...yeesh but this game has 0 of that!

I think Yoshida realizes that the majority of people who play this game aren't very social and can get uncomfortable in those situations so keeps it to a minimum. In DF you barely have to communicate. Can you imagine if people had to work together in the open world for something? Oh well..I guess that is what real life is for.

[Claymore65]

It does not really accommodate me..and my friends we kind of enjoy having to fight our way to places and work together. There could be some serious strongholds with good rewards and chests in there that you have to farm keys for. That would be fun.

Really, I think this is where Diadem could, and likely was intended to shine. A large, open world area with more difficult (at the very least Dungeon level) monsters, with powerful boss style monsters as well as more islands to explore. However, because it was mechanically more efficient to just grind mobs on a single island, that's what people did. With some improvements, it could satisfy the "Explore dangerous areas with a friend" (especially with level/ilvl sync or a system like Deep Dungeon), while keeping the overworld and game itself solo-friendly. I feel like that could be a good compromise. Maybe even a "Diadem-like" mode that doesn't require as many people would be perfect.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

May I ask why play a Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Game then? I am not trolling or trying to be rude/attitude, I am genuinely curious. I find it to be like me with my work..if I told the director "I want to act in this play, but not in front of people, only people I choose at my leisure. " >.>

I do like encouraging social interaction though...but hmm, being social to progress...

I find a lot of the people in these games struggle with that, so I don't think many would progress. As for me I love being social, it comes naturally and super easy to me. As an extrovert I'd love for more social content but this game really lacks that aspect..and the linkshells I am in really show that. 90% of the folks in this game I have come across are extremely socially awkward. I always feel bad for them but dunno how to help them..anyway, sorry to ramble but yea I am curious...

And anyway I wouldn't expect a game to help someone overcome their social issues. But who knows..anything is possible?

Because I still enjoy the social interaction when I chose to participate. That is the fundamental difference to me. When a game forces me to socialize, it often feels arbitrary or "fake" because many of us are there solely because we can't do whatever it is we're attempting without certain people. I certainly don't mind more social content-- like a less intense static. I just never want the game to force it on me because there are plenty of times we're I'm perfectly happy playing by myself. Might be my years of mostly playing single player RPGs or RTS games though. I'll admit, I can get oddly self determined. Like with crafting now. I want to make every bit of Ironworks because as my first foray into top tier crafting in this game, doing it mostly on my own felt like an accomplishment.

It isn't about not wanting social interaction, but more about it not feeling forced. Take dedicated raid groups for example. None of us are forced to play together, we're all just like-minded players with a particular goal we all want to achieve.

And didn't find it rude at all. You're not the first to ask me either.

[KitingGenbu]

...

This issue does greatly depend on the individual's interaction with it in the past. Some people got the good end and some didn't, so you're reasoning is justified. Being in hardcore linkshells wasn't always great since many had rules depending on the type of linkshell it was. For example, if it was one that did all kinds of events including HNMs, chances are they wanted you to only have one linkshell and for you to drop whatever you were doing to help if windows were open. Other types might be more loose like ones that focused on maybe dynamis/sea/sky. Loot determination was a huge deal as well. Some used point systems, some had leaders just decide on their own, etc etc. In many cases it was far from fair since you have several linkshells that just used people to help them make money or get relics while convincing the lower members clears and r/ex gear was what they truly wanted. Making it more sad, many of these leaders would milk as much as they could and just server hop to better linkshells since many high end linkshells didn't care so much about your rep as they did your gear. But again, everyone's experience with forced socialization in order to progress was probably different. Its just those types still existed.

The real difficulty is finding a middle ground, which for the most part I felt voidwatch kind of achieved more so than other forms of content in the game. You could group with pretty much any set of people, so no job was honestly useless unless there were just multiples of them and everyone got individualized loot, so no one could 'ninja' anyone and no one's time was wasted. Plus you could do it to level and get merits etc. Obviously there were many downsides even when they tried to adjust it years later since many mats were used for upgrades, such as people not wanting to run old ones to help people get certain key items and other ones were just down right obsolete, even the last one. All in all it was something that could be easily replicated here even though the mechanics would probably be different but the concepts could be the same, assuming they ever fix the alliance system.