Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

[JimmyDean]

Starting a thread to just let posters take the wheel is not a very good way to convince the devs.

I'm not trying to convince the devs. lol. This is posted in General discussion. Which is exactly whats happening. General discussion.

[Vivi_Bushido]

I'm not trying to convince the devs. lol. This is posted in General discussion. Which is exactly whats happening. General discussion.

And I am generally discussing my own thoughts and opinions by saying the game is fine. It doesn't need to be more like FFXI or WoW.

You guys miss FFXI, I get that. I really do. You grew up with it; and it was probably your first MMO ever, your childhood, that's fine. But just because FFXIV isn't FFXI, doesn't make it a bad game. Everyone prefers what they grew up with. That's just how the world works. Sadly, the world is growing up through. We're getting new technology, new advancements, new players. Sad to say, FFXIV isn't designed around FFXI players. It's designed around the new gamers of today and the old gamers. A casual social place for the casual social gamer.

[JimmyDean]

And I am generally discussing my own thoughts and opinions by saying the game is fine. It doesn't need to be more like FFXI or WoW.

You guys miss FFXI, I get that. I really do. You grew up with it; and it was probably your first MMO ever, your childhood, that's fine. But just because FFXIV isn't FFXI, doesn't make it a bad game. Everyone prefers what they grew up with. That's just how the world works. Sadly, the world is growing up through. We're getting new technology, new advancements, new players. Sad to say, FFXIV isn't designed around FFXI players. It's designed around the new gamers of today and the old gamers. A casual social place for the casual social gamer.

It's casual indeed. Social, not so much.

[Lexia]

It's designed around the new gamers of today and the old gamers. A casual social place for the casual social gamer.

Like this person said

It's casual indeed. Social, not so much.

A person can do large majority of this game without ever talking to or making friends with anyone.

[KitingGenbu]

Like this person said



A person can do large majority of this game without ever talking to or making friends with anyone.

I kind of have to agree. They copied the DF aspect, but forgot the social aspect that WoW allows, which is allows people to add friends to your account so you can stay in touch if you meet cool people through instanced content.

Then again, something like that shouldn't be surprising since we can't even communicate via tells in instances even within the instance, I guess due to RMT prevention. There's not even a private message function on the forum. Maybe that's for RMT prevention purposes too.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's casual indeed. Social, not so much.

Hate to say it, but... welcome to gaming in the 21st century. There is a reason Pokemon Go is considered such a cultural phenomenon. People simply aren't interested in being forced to interact outside their discretion. In fact, games that have attempted it often see limited success if any whatsoever. That is in large part because people can be unreliable. I, personally, do not want a game where I have to be social in order to progress. Few people will organize groups for content. They'll merely play something else. Hence why MMOs do not force social interaction; only encourage it. A big turn off back in FFXI was being required to party at early levels lest I get annihilated by a buffalo. I'll make friends at my own leisure, thank you.

FFXI suffered from a complete lack of balance. Certainljobs were unquestionably superior and if you even attempted to deviant from the preferred norm, you would not get invited to parties. This nostalgia obsession with FFXI is simply that: nostalgia. If SE ever did implement some form of horizontal progression in FFXIV, it would inevitably be grinded down to what is mathematically best and any other weapon variance would be relegated to obscurity.

[Shurrikhan]

If SE ever did implement some form of horizontal progression in FFXIV, it would inevitably be grinded down to what is mathematically best and any other weapon variance would be relegated to obscurity.

It's not as if that wasn't the case in FFXI already. It's a matter of degree, mathematically, more than it is a difference in any two communities. As you said, XI suffered from a lack of balance. Much of the rigid requirements are only product of that. Some choices were just that inferior. Balance could have avoided that.

If two weapons are more than some 10% apart in output, you'll see vocal community preference towards the better. But inversely, at some point approaching equality both become acceptable. "Horizontal" progression as a 'this is best for this fight', etc. paradigm, where each fight may require gear from a number of others just to be permitted entry, is not really horizontal so much as it is simply many vertical paths. FFXIV could already accomplish this by simply having any second means of achieving a certain level of gear at a certain difficulty. For "horizontal" progression to be truly as named, there needs to be elements of wide access, and/or each of these fights requiring X, Y, and Z gear, must also have a sense of vertical progression between them, allowing you choice of progression paths. If, regardless of overall ilvl, each fight requires very particular prior progression, it just becomes a winding, but still basically singular, road.

Probably the biggest reason we haven't seen hint or trace of horizontal gearing in XIV is that it's not a particularly efficient model. In the end, it's something that allows choice, which means allowing people to potentially skip content you've spent resources to create. If weapon A is as good as weapon B, within whatever precision or playstyle you're likely ever to use either for, there's no real reason to gather weapon B.

And that's not even mentioning how little playstyle variance XIV makes available, even if gear were crucial to that. Aside from Bard and SCH Crit, Speed is about the only the stat with a visible effect on one's rotation, and the latter, sadly, suffers from oversights that condemn its balance anyways.

[Iromi]

. I, personally, do not want a game where I have to be social in order to progress. Few people will organize groups for content. They'll merely play something else. Hence why MMOs do not force social interaction; only encourage it. A big turn off back in FFXI was being required to party at early levels lest I get annihilated by a buffalo. I'll make friends at my own leisure, thank you.

May I ask why play a Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Game then? I am not trolling or trying to be rude/attitude, I am genuinely curious. I find it to be like me with my work..if I told the director "I want to act in this play, but not in front of people, only people I choose at my leisure. " >.>

I do like encouraging social interaction though...but hmm, being social to progress...

I find a lot of the people in these games struggle with that, so I don't think many would progress. As for me I love being social, it comes naturally and super easy to me. As an extrovert I'd love for more social content but this game really lacks that aspect..and the linkshells I am in really show that. 90% of the folks in this game I have come across are extremely socially awkward. I always feel bad for them but dunno how to help them..anyway, sorry to ramble but yea I am curious...

And anyway I wouldn't expect a game to help someone overcome their social issues. But who knows..anything is possible?

The arguments you guys are bringing up are kind of making me cringe.

Like, the main reason the overworld is as static as it is isn't just to make the game "easier," it's to accommodate several different type of players by allowing them to go at their own pace.

And considering the potential challenge of duty quests/dungeons, there is already potential challenge in the game as is. The difference, here, is that the challenge is shifted into the right areas.

It does not really accommodate me..and my friends we kind of enjoy having to fight our way to places and work together. There could be some serious strongholds with good rewards and chests in there that you have to farm keys for. That would be fun.

Sure, some places can be ezpz, but we need a few zones where you need a group to get through, or at least 2 of ya. I think the main reason the overworld is boring (or low level mobs that do nothing rather) is because of the money. People would unsub if they had to actually work together or try to get somewhere. I wouldn't want the whole world like that..that would be annoying, but at least sometimes...yeesh but this game has 0 of that!

I think Yoshida realizes that the majority of people who play this game aren't very social and can get uncomfortable in those situations so keeps it to a minimum. In DF you barely have to communicate. Can you imagine if people had to work together in the open world for something? Oh well..I guess that is what real life is for.

[Claymore65]

It does not really accommodate me..and my friends we kind of enjoy having to fight our way to places and work together. There could be some serious strongholds with good rewards and chests in there that you have to farm keys for. That would be fun.

Really, I think this is where Diadem could, and likely was intended to shine. A large, open world area with more difficult (at the very least Dungeon level) monsters, with powerful boss style monsters as well as more islands to explore. However, because it was mechanically more efficient to just grind mobs on a single island, that's what people did. With some improvements, it could satisfy the "Explore dangerous areas with a friend" (especially with level/ilvl sync or a system like Deep Dungeon), while keeping the overworld and game itself solo-friendly. I feel like that could be a good compromise. Maybe even a "Diadem-like" mode that doesn't require as many people would be perfect.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

May I ask why play a Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Game then? I am not trolling or trying to be rude/attitude, I am genuinely curious. I find it to be like me with my work..if I told the director "I want to act in this play, but not in front of people, only people I choose at my leisure. " >.>

I do like encouraging social interaction though...but hmm, being social to progress...

I find a lot of the people in these games struggle with that, so I don't think many would progress. As for me I love being social, it comes naturally and super easy to me. As an extrovert I'd love for more social content but this game really lacks that aspect..and the linkshells I am in really show that. 90% of the folks in this game I have come across are extremely socially awkward. I always feel bad for them but dunno how to help them..anyway, sorry to ramble but yea I am curious...

And anyway I wouldn't expect a game to help someone overcome their social issues. But who knows..anything is possible?

Because I still enjoy the social interaction when I chose to participate. That is the fundamental difference to me. When a game forces me to socialize, it often feels arbitrary or "fake" because many of us are there solely because we can't do whatever it is we're attempting without certain people. I certainly don't mind more social content-- like a less intense static. I just never want the game to force it on me because there are plenty of times we're I'm perfectly happy playing by myself. Might be my years of mostly playing single player RPGs or RTS games though. I'll admit, I can get oddly self determined. Like with crafting now. I want to make every bit of Ironworks because as my first foray into top tier crafting in this game, doing it mostly on my own felt like an accomplishment.

It isn't about not wanting social interaction, but more about it not feeling forced. Take dedicated raid groups for example. None of us are forced to play together, we're all just like-minded players with a particular goal we all want to achieve.

And didn't find it rude at all. You're not the first to ask me either.