DPS requirements to unlock duties?

[Daranion]

If there's glamours and incentives, thats kind of pointless if they must clear it before proceeding. It's just something they must do once before each new extreme content. Thats a 3 minute test once or twice every patch cycle. How could you possibly be against that? It's jsut a simple knowledge check of how your skills work. 3 minutes before the fight to see if you'd be a drag or not. It doesn't need incentives or bells or whistles. Its something you do one per role you want to go in as just as a bare minmum showing of your class mastery.

[lulunami]

When Nidhogg Story mode was released, it took me 12 hours to beat it in Duty Finder. While running trial roulette the first two weeks of the patch, I had a 10 percent success rate in Nidhogg Story mode because we failed to beat the 3 add DPS check. We either vote abandoned or failed after an hour of trying.

Considering I was able to beat the A8S SSS striking dummy at ilvl 220 with a Sephirot weapon, Nidhogg Story mode was too hard to carry newbies in Duty Finder. I understand there are a lot of new players that do not know how to play. Doing complex rotations takes dedication and practice. I do not think I ever experienced anything more depressing in Duty Finder. I just hope these DPS players learned how to play properly.

[StrejdaTom]

I just hope these DPS players learned how to play properly.

Why would they? There is 0 incentive to get better in this game and every time someone suggests something that would force people to care atleast a bit about their job it gets shot down immediately. Not sure why it is so hard to understand that for other players this game is supposed to be fun too and not an unpaid job. And unfortunately this game ends up being unpaid job every time you are carrying x other people in DF because they "would rather leave the game than go to a dummy and learn something."

And I am not sure what is the point of SSS when the people who need it the most have no idea it is even in the game considering how optional it is. Well, my FC uses it when giving ranks to new people and deciding who we will help with extreme primals etc. (to make sure everyone deserves the help and isn't just being carried) but that's about it.

[RLofOBFL]

snip

I enjoy doing the dolls myself, I challenged myself to beat nid ex with all my 218 DPs classes & suceeded after some practice(latency issues for NIN) & it was fun to me but most people will not have that thought process.

MOST people will think it's impossible after trying a few times & give up, complain they have to do elite raider dps just to do content, say ff14 panders to raiders & unsub. Why? Bc that is how (most)people are. That is why. If they are terrible at their job in the first place chances are they don't care enough to try to get better, they just wanna do all the content. With more incentives they might be persuaded to try harder but honestly I still think it would end badly if SE did this. I'm for it, but it might be a bad decision for holding subs aka making money.

[Imoen]

Imoen have you ever even done the Stone Sea and Sky test? Like any of them? The way you speak makes it seem like you haven't or even done a lot of hard content in pugs. You seem so against it and your entire argument comes down to "but it wouldn't be fun" I've sttated several ways on how this could help out and yet you disregard all of it with non answers and misdirections

Depends on what you mean by, "hard"? Coil? Alex Savage? EX? Then ya I have. (not the latest iteration mind you, not going to lie, as I already said I have been out a while)

With all due respect, no I haven't seen you suggest any "several" ways on how this could help. I even went back and read all your posts when I read this. (thought I may have missed something)

What I read, boiled down to... "DPS hard check for n00bs" = "Save veterans time and headache"

If I missed some nuance in there, then I implore you to re-iterate, because I don't see it. Not trying to be difficult or any of those negative things, swirling in peoples brains. I'm just being critical, no different than anyone else being critical of other players that they shamelessly post about on these forums as if they are private or something, as if others can't read it. No different than players being critical of game content. This is the same thing.

I don't see how this helps, you haven't explained how this helps, except a perfect world scenario which would never exists even with this system.

I'm pointing out that ...

A. The system doesn't promote better play, it just teaches people how to do that "one" thing. No different than any other fight in the game

B. It is fundamentally boring from the perspective of someone first joining end game or the game in general. (could easily push people away from playing, if the moogle quests in churning mists didn't, like it or not, veterans quit out/get bored, new players are needed/wanted, don't push them away with snooze dummies.)

C. Even if the system existed, it would not solve what you are trying to solve. (Which from what I gather is, less headache on your end, and again I like to assume everyone is a good person just trying to help others) People are people, they make choices, no amount of game play design hand holding, will fix that.

/rant, people on here say "oh we want less hand holding" "oh we want more random" "we want harder stuff" well you know what? It can't happen, when random happens "oh random sux" when hard happens "oh its too hard" when less hand holding occures "we need more hand holding for people" ... honestly I don't think you all know what any of you all want.

[Daranion]

That "one" thing is very darn important. Mechanics are a fight by fight basis, but learning your rotations and knowing how to put out damage as a damage dealing class? That is something you can carry with you through all your gameplay. And quite frankly, if you not being able to blow up a dummy in 3 minutes when the game tells you "this is your target for the bare minimum that could be called contribution" ISN'T a sign that lets the player know they need to improve, then that person may be an idiot. Secondly, if a 3 minute test that you need to pass before getting into the real hard Ex content bars you from entry, then they are a problem, plain and simple.Anyone who can't spare 180 seconds once and then never again do the test most likely isn't the type of player who would even be good at the fight. The rest of the party shouldn't suffer just because a player wants to "enjoy the spectacle" That's what the normal mode fights are for. Last of all, a sign that shows you you can't meet the bare minimum is a major tool for improvement. What you are implying seems to be "lmao who cares, thats boring. Forget the rest of the team I just want to see flashing lights" and that's not good for the majority of the playerbase. This isn't meant to gate new players. It's a test to see if you're ready for the big boy content, that you know your class well enough to perform. If you honestly can't see this, you're ignorant.

[Rongway]

Lulz. I know at least 7 people that would drop this game so fast if they had to beat on a Dummy first. Like do you want to beat on a dummy? Nah me either. Cmon man what do you expect? People want the fight, not the dummy. I'm not saying people are ready ...but that is the rational going on.

You don't want to be compelled to blow up a thing that just sits there doing nothing before you get to fight the real thing that does the things and all that. But

If you can't beat a static dps check on a dummy you definitely shouldn't be queueing for whatever dungeon/trial that dummy is based on, because you either don't have enough gear or you don't know how to play your job.

is so right. If you can't beat a basic damage check on a stationary object that doesn't fight back, there is absolutely no way you can legitimately beat a damage check on a moving object that can kill you inside of two shots.

I am all for teaching people how to handle the mechanics in fights to which they are new. When they're ready. But in no reasonable scenario is someone going to put out more damage while dancing around floor patterns trying to stay alive than he would against a stationary, inactive, dummy. If someone goes into a fight lacking the gear or technique that a dummy expects him to have, he is asking for a bad time and condemning seven other people to the same.

It's not about

What I read, boiled down to... "DPS hard check for n00bs" = "Save veterans time and headache"

If there are seven or eight new people and only six of them have the gear and technical foundation upon which to heap the stress of mechanics and fine ability alignment, the one or two people who already can't meet the kill requirements against the easiest possible setup will prevent the prepared people from ever even seeing the later phases of the fight.

Which brings us back to

Lulz. I know at least 7 people that would drop this game so fast if they had to beat on a Dummy first. Like do you want to beat on a dummy? Nah me either. Cmon man what do you expect? People want the fight, not the dummy. I'm not saying people are ready ...but that is the rational going on.

only now it's not about the one person who doesn't want to lulz beat on a dummy before he has to mechanics. Because clearly, if the person in question can't blow up a dummy, he won't get to see very many mechanics anyway, and the worst part is that neither will the other seven people who are ready to kick some ass and don't think it's a lulzing matter.

[MeiUshu]

what is next ? a playgame permit that all will have to study for years before you even are allowed to play ? I would say to stop asking for silly things and act like jerks as if you (generic word) were so more important then anyone else since you can play so better then anyone else...my goodness

[Imoen]

snip

Again I'm all for helping new players, but no-one is an "Idiot" they either "Know", "Don't know", or "Don't care" or they got some sort of mental issue. That doesn't make them stupid, or idiotic or w/e nonsense you want to throw out there, to push your agenda, nor does it solve the problem at hand. You might as well rename this thread to "I don't want to deal with bads"

One of your main reasons was about wasting peoples time.... but then you ask people to waste time on a dummy, I'm sorry man, that is just straight up hypocritical, you can't wait 180 seconds to explain a fight or help people through it... but you want people, including yourself, with your system to waste 180 seconds, beating on a dummy, for no reason other than to unlock a DF button, to see if they can waste more time, with people that don't want their time wasted, and end up with the same result? (Redundant Much?)

This doesn't solve anything... How? How, does it solve anything? You still haven't answered me that. "They can kill a dummy or not "... right, ok but that doesn't mean they will get that DPS IN the fight... which is kind of one of my points here, you would still have this issue. It didn't solve anything, it didn't filter anything, you just ended up with a smaller pool of players that hated it , gave up (good or bad) or people that powered through it (good or bad) and ended up in your party doing the same derpy things that you think are a problem.

AND IT IS BORING... it is boring, very boring... If you are going to test players, give them the exact fight that is there, in a practice ground, with people queing up for practice...then add it to the mentor roulette, for that fight, which I'm pretty sure they have already mentioned is coming >.> (oh wait, most mentors here would be like "ARRRRG CAN"T BEAT IT PEOPLE BAD....)

You know what , you are darned right I'm ignorant, ignorant to what the hell you are suggesting here, that somehow makes people better players, and you're arrogant to think this solves problems.

In short, beating something to a bloody pulp DOES NOT = Good rotation. Good decision making. Good habits.

[OmegaStrongtan]

My Suggestion:

After you have done your level 60 Job quest your Job NPC gives you another Quest.
It is some special version of SSS Dummy but in this you will be level synced to whatever feels right for a fresh lvl 60 character.
In this fight you enter with 3 NPC characters and the dummy will execute basic mechanics like AoE, Cone AoE, Hug mark, walk AoE mark out of group. Simple but basic stuff you should know by now. Do them wrong or don't meet DPS, let your NPCs die or meet aggro generating requirements = Duty failed, please try again.

Make this quest needed for everything after Thordan normal mode. They can even have the NPCs give hints about doing mechanic and your Job NPC will give hints about rotations.