Job Tweak Suggestions DPS Roles

[Id_Slayer]

I'd like to see MCH turret affected by our self-buffs and other things we do to ourselves, more. They learned this lesson with SMN pets like, a year ago? It's like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing on SE's Dev team.

[sackm]

yeah lets make BLM even better and SMN even more irrelevent in raid content

[NovaLevossida]

Why is there no context behind any of the changes? None of them make sense. There's literally no room for discussion here without some explanation lol

The NIN one makes a lot of sense. When you do you ever use Sneak Attack in group content? And when is solo content difficult enough that you'd "need" sneak attack? Almost everything can be stunned (even a lot of FATE bosses can be slept on BLM) to enable trick attack anyway.

Stealth is absolutely awful in its current implementation. That's one ability that could use a lot of tweaking as well. Most MMOs with stealth grant you some bonus related to movement as you level up, from Ultima Online's taking more steps while hidden to more recent MMO's increase of movement speed. It's found some obscure semblance of use in PotD, but otherwise, there's no content in the game frightening enough for stealth to be useful, and most overworld things at 60 can just be flown over.

I'd honestly rework NIN so that stealth wasn't required for SA, and SA was moved to a once per minute ability with a rear positional like TA has. TA would still function with stealth requirement / ninjutsu requirement. But I see no reason to have the equivalent of a rogue's backstab (with a ridiculous frontal requirement) just sit unused in 99% of the game's content.

[RiceisNice]

I'd honestly rework NIN so that stealth wasn't required for SA, and SA was moved to a once per minute ability with a rear positional like TA has. TA would still function with stealth requirement / ninjutsu requirement. But I see no reason to have the equivalent of a rogue's backstab (with a ridiculous frontal requirement) just sit unused in 99% of the game's content.

Suiton says hi. Also Sneak attack does just fine as solo burst damage; it's not like anything lasts long enough for you to necessitate a 10% damage debuff. Stealth has always been a niche mechanic in mmos, this is no exception. The only real exception is PvP, and we know how PvP is in FFXIV.

[Shurrikhan]

Hello there, I was wondering if this would be reasonable future job tweaks before 4.0 release. Tell me what you think. I really hope the staff of Final Fantasy XIV sees this.

Black Mage:
Astral Fire - Before: 12 seconds. After: 15 seconds.
Manawall - Now nullifies physical damage up to 30% of maximum HP.

Astral Fire and Umbral Ice have already been extended from 10 seconds to 12. I think that is plentiful as is. One concession I would be fine with making though is if AF and UI were 12.5s and granted on cast, rather than on hit, meaning that you could generate AF/UI against invincible targets, or that skills that remove AF or UI do not do so if the attack does not deal damage.

I'm fine with Manawall as it is. Preferably, I'd love for it to return to its old form, in part, absorbing all of a single physical attack regardless of its damage, and then additional attacks to a total of 30% HP. (Yes, the initial attack detracts from the cap, but the damage prevention on the first attack cannot be ended early because of the cap.)

Dragoon:
Heavy Thrust - Now increases damage dealt by 15% for 27 seconds.
Elusive Jump - Now has it's cooldown decreased to 60 seconds.
Ring of Thorns - Combo action removed and now does 120 potency and TP cost increased to 140.

The Heavy Thrust change would only serve to mess with current rotations and make the skill even more stupidly strong.'
I'm all for a Elusive Jump CD reduction to make it feel like a real movement CD. However, 90s would probably be plenty frequent. Some change to the enmity drop component may be necessary.
I see no reason for the RoT change. You'll default to DS as long as you can get the majority of mobs into the linear AoE, anyways. The combo action was one of the few means of variance. I'd like to see more rotational reasons to use it, not fewer. Though more TP efficient per HT, it still remains far inferior to HT-RoT-DS spam, which would then be simplified to HT-DS spam.

(1260 AoE potency (and 170 ST potency) per HT at 1300 TP cost [.96], from the original 950 AoE potency (and 170 ST potency) per HT at 1150 TP cost [.83], where both are inferior in damage to HT-(RoT)-DS spam's up to 1430 or 1440 AoE potency (and 170 ST potency) per HT at 1470 or 1510 TP cost [.97 or .95] and inferior in efficiency to HT-RoT-DS spam.

That said, I can see why you might want a your circular AoE to be more competitive against Ninja's in damage or efficiency per HT (in which NIN fits an extra AoE global by nature of needing no buff, and almost another two via Huton, atop a 5% stronger damage modifier). That said, that won't be possible without massively adjusting the internal (vs. DS and Geirskogul) and external balance (vs. NIN/MNK/etc.) of RoT. NIN's AoE is wholly spammable and has positive TP efficiency, whereas DS is neutral at best and would be made irrelevant if RoT were always to be nearly as good.

Bard:
The Wanderer's Minuet - Now increases damage dealt by 35%.

This would remove what few reasons we have to stance-dance, an aspect I happen to enjoy. At present, WM must make up for ~500 potency of AA damage over its duration, or approximately 80 per WM GCD. At 30%, that requires at least 266.67 potency within the GCD. Either DoT does this, as does any combination of weaponskill and Bloodletter, while Straighter Shot alone and HS/SS paired with RS/BA fall just short. At 35%, only 228.57 potency would be needed, making even Heavy Shot and Repelling Shot (230 potency) WM-preferable.

Of course, in the end, stance-dancing still comes down to the actual timing of the AAs, an element of planning vs. the risk of Bloodletter procs. But I'd rather see Bard more able to stance-dance than have virtually nothing to lose from staying in WM.

I'd rather reduce the lock-in duration of WM to 3 to 4 GCDs (7 or 9s, scaling with skill speed), or revise the mechanic completely.

Machinist:
Gauss Barrel - Now increases damage dealt by 35%.
Heartbreak - Cooldown is now 15 seconds.
Suppressive Fire - Range is now increased to 25 yards.

See above for issue with GB change. At present, stance-dancing is both relatively reliable and a significant bonus to a MCH. I'd rather not diminish that. If anything, I'd rather see AAs go off instantly after leaving GB/WM.

The change to Heartbreak makes it too similar to Misery's End, imo. If not for the PvP concerns, I'd say to buff the damage, if anything, or cause it to instantly finish off the target if up to an additional, say, 40% Heartbreak damage would have done so. (e.g. a Deathstroke passive), grant minor attack power or TP restore on Overkill/Killing Blow, etc, or have its cooldown reduced with every kill. Something that increases its interest, rather than just its frequency.

The current 5-yalm range of Suppressive Fire (not to mention its icon) does seem more like a mob execution than its animation and effect would seem to match. That said, I like that it forces the MCH to come closer if it is to do what was originally impossible to ranged (a stun, rather than a mere silence). That said, 8 to 15 yalms a decent range. 8 or 9 would be a midpoint between melee and Quick Nock range, 12 Quick Nock range, and any more than 15 wouldn't feel like you're approaching at all.

Ninja: Sneak Attack & Trick Attack, no longer share a cooldown.
Hide - No longer reduces movement speed.

At that point you may as well place a cooldown on using either Sneak Attack or Trick Attack FROM Suiton (Call it Mistbreak, Cloak and Dagger, or what have you), and remove the cooldowns on the two Attacks entirely, making NIN a leveling God in combination with your change to Hide. Or, let me wipe off that drool briefly, be reasonable and partly share CDs so that you have reason to balance out usage, without just outright alternating the two. I like the idea of the Hide change, or at least reducing the movement penalty to 33% or less, but the first idea has major PvE dps repercussions. NIN is already the highest contributor to raid DPS in most comps. It shouldn't be buffed arbitrarily, or especially by oversights.

Without that Suiton-based cooldown to bottle-neck it, however, that would be a truly massive oGCD damage buff. Raiton deals a maximum of 432 potency with BV-Foe Requiem, or 360 normally. Sneak Attack deals 550 with your own Dancing Edge or Warrior's Storm's Eye, PLUS the 180 Suiton (max 216) that activates it, or a total of 730 (max 766). An additional 370 oGCD potency per minute.

Imagine also how the Kassatsu TA window would be affected. The typical Suiton-TA-(Crit)Raiton does 1214 potency (180+400+40+360+180+36+18), gaining 234 from Kassatsu and TA. A Suiton-TA-(Crit)Suiton-SA would do 1490 (180+400+40+180+90+18+9+500+50+50), gaining 167 from Kassatsu and TA. Raiton remains the superior choice for the TA position, but not by much.

last but not always least, in double-NIN parties, the only real effect (apart from the bonus 740 to 750 raid potency per minute) this would have is adding another choice for the Suiton spender in the other NIN's TA window, and the extra 100 potency, or extra 10 TA bonus, and the one second less of wasted duration or when the oGCD isn't synced perfectly to duration fade, isn't too likely to outweigh the advantages of having some 18 seconds of the buff up, easier for the raid to fit all its oGCDs into (at least for those that have long enough CDs as to risk delay or desync for a mere 10% modifier).

Gameplay wise, I'd consider whether you really want to be casting 2 Suiton per minute anyways, let alone running in front of the boss once per minute, in addition to buffing one of the game's most solid jobs.

[NovaLevossida]

Suiton says hi. Also Sneak attack does just fine as solo burst damage; it's not like anything lasts long enough for you to necessitate a 10% damage debuff. Stealth has always been a niche mechanic in mmos, this is no exception. The only real exception is PvP, and we know how PvP is in FFXIV.

My post addressing Suiton says hi.

[Shurrikhan]

My post addressing Suiton says hi.

I'd honestly rework NIN so that stealth wasn't required for SA, and SA was moved to a once per minute ability with a rear positional like TA has. TA would still function with stealth requirement / ninjutsu requirement. But I see no reason to have the equivalent of a rogue's backstab (with a ridiculous frontal requirement) just sit unused in 99% of the game's content.

So the NIN has the option to either use any other Ninjutsu (generally Raiton) in place of Suiton and use Sneak Attack instead of Trick Attack, assuming SA and TA still share cooldowns?

[Claymore022]

The NIN one makes a lot of sense. When you do you ever use Sneak Attack in group content? .

When does a monk ever use feather foot in group content? Does that mean we should change it to a damage dealing ability? No it doesn't. The same can be said for a lot of jobs. If SE went around giving out buffs to jobs that don't need it, it'd break the game. I can think of a ton of skills that could be changed on jobs to be useful in raid but that doesn't mean it should be done.

[Shurrikhan]

When does a monk ever use feather foot in group content? Does that mean we should change it to a damage dealing ability? No it doesn't. The same can be said for a lot of jobs. If SE went around giving out buffs to jobs that don't need it, it'd break the game. I can think of a ton of skills that could be changed on jobs to be useful in raid but that doesn't mean it should be done.

Were it just reliable (much like the original Perfect Dodge, or by making use of some sort of urgency-dependent rating / dodge resource system), you'd probably see it necessarily used in fights like Garuda Ex if the Monk wanted to stay in range for Wicked Wheel. Sadly, even that's been moved away from, as the only damage types melee have to deal with now are the same that ranged also deal with, rather than having any differing sets of mechanics that would be uniquely mitigateable. I'd like to see revisions such as that, both through the skills themselves and the contents they might be used in. But I'd agree that that doesn't mean every non-offensive ability or non raid-essential skill should be trimmed or flattened into raid damage. We have already an irregular lack of identity-heavy abilities meant for the open world, soloing, versatility, etc. Hide and Sneak Attack are actually two of the few remnants, if anything, in my opinion.

[Rhaja]

While we're on it, can we get an actual use for One Ilm Punch? I know Hull Breaker HM it can be used on the brothers which felt amazing, but It'd be nice to use that ability for more than PVP >_>

Like can we switch it to it removes a debuff from ourselves or something?