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  1. #11
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,870
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Though I feel like Heavy Swing may as well join the other tanks at a 60-TP opener, there's really 0 need, since Warrior makes up for it with free Stack-spender skills and Deliverance-Equilibrium.
    Similarly, Overpower is already one of the highest enmity outputs in the game. It doesn't need a further increased enmity modifier. All that would end up doing is ensure that people use it over Tomahawk to secure enmity upon approach.

    What I do feel like Warrior needs is a revision to Defiance, allowing its healing taken multiplier to affect abilities. This was the case when all healer abilities were %HP (Lustrate and Benediction), but it has since been relatively nerfed due to Lustrate's change to potency and the addition of other healing abilities, none of which are covered by Defiance.

    I can understand SE's unwillingness to have abilities like Synastry or Divine Seal affect healing Abilities, as those abilities would otherwise be stuck within the windows of those buffs for optimal usage, reducing their freedom and readiness, but having healing taken modifiers like Defiance, Mantra, and Convalescence only affect healing Spells seems wrong.

    I'll take the cover CD reduction, sure. Though that bit may need to stay out of PvP.

    Unleash similarly doesn't need an enmity increase. You already have a 20% stronger option in the form of Abyssal Drain. (AD = .12345 potency per MP, whereas Unleash = .12579 potency per MP. There is, effectively, no difference in efficiency.) The only reason we keep Unleash on our bars after getting AD is that we can't cast AD on ourselves; often enough a given mob may be out of range from another's AD radius, but not from the self-centered Unleash radius.

    The most reasonable change to counter the adverse affects of LD with increased Vitality (or simply, gear) would be to average the requirement with the max HP that would be present on a i145 or i160 full-Vit DRK. Cuts the adverse scaling effects by half. A reduction such as your suggested 50% would also work, of course, albeit with an unintended buff at lower gear levels. Ideally I'd just like SE to see again if they can create a system for negative HP, as Living Dead always seemed have been intended for.



    Brief counter-suggestions:
    • Consider reworking evasion systems from scratch come 4.0. Should aim to create synergy, rather than potential conflicts, between blocks, parries, dodges, and enemy accuracy reductions.

    • Consider severe reworking of GLD and PLD for 4.0.
    • Cover CD reduced from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.
    • Flash enmity now scales with Fight or Flight.
    • Spirits Within now self-heals for an amount equal to the potency lost to its attack. (At 33% HP, would deal 100 potency and heal for 200 potency.)

    • "Healing magic" now includes healing done by healing Abilities.
    • Defiance-Equilibrium healing reduced by 20%. (10% less normally, 5% greater when stacked with Convalescence.)
    • Fracture potency over time increased from 20 to 25. Total potency increased from 220 to 250 base, or from 300 to 350 traited. TP cost increased to 90. (Efficiency nearly equal at 2.77 from 2.75 TP per potency.)
    • Deliverance damage dealt modifier reduced from 5% to 3%, but critical strike chance increased from 2% per stack to 3% per stack.
      Increased urgency in Warrior rotations. Dragoon now has at least some small reason to use Fracture, situationally, when out of BotD rotation. Monk dps and TP consumption increased. Fracture is now always the superior DoT solo choice over ToD if the target won't live for more than 18 seconds longer.


    • Dark Dance now also grants an increased parry chance equal to half the %HP the attack against you would have done if unmitigated. Only one parry can be guaranteed.
    • Souleater now generates 50% of damage as healing regardless of stance. The Soul Devourer trait causes Souleater to also generate 50% of damage as shielding when in Grit.
    • Grit MP cost reduced by 50%.
    • The healing requirement to dispel Walking Dead has been averaged with 15000 for characters over level 60. (This is within racial stat dependent range of an i145 level 60.)
    • Sole Survivor may now also be used on an ally, diverting half your parry chance and self-healing to the target based. Any parries made by either will trigger on-parry effects for both. If either dies during the effect, the other gains 20% of maximum MP and %HP. (Any overhealing at either end will go to the other. Strength of parries granted are based on your own stats and effects. Effects such as Dark Dance's guaranteed parry work off both you and the target.)
    • Sole Survivor cooldown reduced from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.
      Sole Survivor now functions as a much lesser alternate Cover and a way to proc Reprisal as the OT. Cooldown now meets a multiple of Reprisal's.
    (2)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 07-25-2016 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Forgot Grit MP cost... How do I forget that?...

  2. #12
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    At level 60, Unleash costs 795 MP. Flash costs 707 MP.

    You don't need the option to switch oath at a moment's notice. If you need to swap following Flash spam, you'd burn through your MP leaving about 900 MP in reserve. If not, you'd just burn through it all and wait for it to regenerate with GB combos on every mob. What does it matter if you hit 0 MP on PLD? It's not like you lose 15% of your outgoing damage and lose access to a large part of your toolkit like you do on DRK. There's no comparison.

    If Flash does damage, it should cost TP. That's a resource that you'd actually care about on PLD.
    (0)
    Last edited by Lyth; 07-25-2016 at 06:21 AM.

  3. #13
    Player
    Truefaith87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    324
    Character
    Tama Seiryu
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 80
    Delirium could be more utilized if we had the ability to make Dark Arts add a different effect to it, without making it some kind of crazy OP skill like most people want? Just something to discuss. IDK if I have any ideas as to what it may be instead, but I was thinking something similar to Storm's Path (10% global damage reduction from the target) for the same duration as the INT down currently is (20sec). Give it a risk/reward for more actively managing your MP through DA usage. About the only major change I would want to the class.
    (0)
    Leader of Tonberry Assassins <STAB!> of Coeurl, a social & light raiding FC.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Dreams should be allowed to fly as free as the birds in the sky.

  4. #14
    Player
    Kitfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,113
    Character
    Lynn Nuvestrahl
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    At level 60, Unleash costs 795 MP. Flash costs 707 MP.

    You don't need the option to switch oath at a moment's notice. If you need to swap following Flash spam, you'd burn through your MP leaving about 900 MP in reserve. If not, you'd just burn through it all and wait for it to regenerate with GB combos on every mob. What does it matter if you hit 0 MP on PLD? It's not like you lose 15% of your outgoing damage and lose access to a large part of your toolkit like you do on DRK. There's no comparison.

    If Flash does damage, it should cost TP. That's a resource that you'd actually care about on PLD.
    Then PLD would need massively better TP management, look at everything WAR has. PLD runs out of TP way faster than the other two tanks already as it is. By far the easiest way to fix PLD would be to have a MP costing AoE in place of Flash and just balance the cost/potency properly. Yes, meta says that Clemency and Stoneskin are useless and pointless, but those are still things that can't be used if you bottom out on your mana.

    The usage is exactly the same as DRK. You spam your hate AoE until you're fairly low on mp and then start cycling your mp combo. Yes, DRK has MP drain and Darkside, but those don't really change how you would use the abilities, not to mention DRK has way more tools for regenerating mana.
    (0)
    Last edited by Kitfox; 07-25-2016 at 07:48 AM.

  5. #15
    Player
    Awful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,280
    Character
    Awful Name
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Change the Dart Arts Power Slash effect to increased magic dmg taken or something because that is the one thing I or any Drk should ever waste their Dark Arts on. Change Delirium to reduce magic dmg taken by 10% instead of having it tied to INT like MNK so it can stack might be a little OP but i'd rather have utility Drk lacks severe utility. Or have a Cover like ability called "Blood Link" where you link yourselves to 3-4 party members in a 25 yard range to transfer % dmg to the Drk instead (can be magical or physical) this means they'd have to change PLDs cover to physical and magical as well giving them both options.

    For 4.0 I hope they give us more tank stats like Dodge, Parry, Block, Set bonuses, that are worth a damn and retool them, but now i'm just being too optimistic, the stats in this game while simple are just meh at the end of the day.
    (1)
    Last edited by Awful; 07-25-2016 at 09:44 AM.

  6. #16
    Player
    Super_Smiley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    74
    Character
    Super' Mario
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Didn't think I get so many responses so fast! This is awesome! I wanted Heavy's Swing TP cost to match Paladin's and Dark Knight's first skill TP cost. As for their AOEs having more enmity, I notice on levels 50 and below, there are times where players still have issues controlling enmity. When this happens, they often tend spam their AOEs way too often and losing MP or TP. So with the increase enmity, they wouldn't have to AOE as often as before and focus more on their single rotations. But that is just my experience and my personal opinion on what I wouldn't mind seeing patch notes before 4.0. Keep giving me your thoughts and ideas on what you would want to see or wouldn't want to see.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player
    Caitlyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Eden
    Posts
    5,440
    Character
    Geistherz Gungnir
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Paladin:
    • Clemency: Mana-cost reduced to half.
    • Raise (cross skill): can be used during battle
    (2)
    - Queen of Heal 2022 -
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulecrain View Post
    Damit du als Queen of heal natürlich deine königlichen Wünsche erfüllt bekommst. ♥
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    Ich finde es eh schon krank, dass du Paules Zitat ungefragt verwendest und ich weiß, dass du nie eine Erlaubnis dafür bekommen hast!

  8. #18
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,870
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Caitlyn View Post
    Paladin:
    • Clemency: Mana-cost reduced to half.
    • Raise (cross skill): can be used during battle
    Clemency already has the per-minute healing output of Inner Beast and Defiance-Equilibrium combined. It just takes up uptime where the other two do not. It can also be affected by Convalescence while self-healing Abilities (Abilities, as opposed to Spells) or damage-to-healing abilities cannot. It takes about 30 seconds as an OT using GB only every third combo to return its full mana cost, giving you about 2400 (+ Conv/Mantra/Defiance modifiers) potency per minute. Shelltron instantly restores about half of that, giving you about 3 casts, or 3600 potency of healing, per minute. Inner Beast gives only a maximum of 1200 potency, including use of Infuriate, and Equilibrium a maximum of 1200 potency per minute. Both essentially require the MT position to maximize healing, but ultimately it takes WAR's traited Bloodbath (compared to PLD's half duration usage) to bring the two jobs close in healing potential. Until then, PLD's healing is greatly superior because of its relatively low mana limitations as is.

    Consider also: reducing the MP cost to half would mean you cast the ability 5 times in a row, or produce 6000 potency of healing (plus additional modifiers) over 10 seconds. You could practically fend for yourself while a Summoner hard rezzes each of your healers.
    (1)

  9. #19
    Player
    Super_Smiley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    74
    Character
    Super' Mario
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Wow I see a lot of interesting Tank ideas here. Hopefully the staff of FFXIV will see some of these and maybe decide to use them in future patches Keep giving me more of your opinions and what you would like to see in future patches!
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player
    Jukebox12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    376
    Character
    Juke Fm
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 73
    Flaah - a dot that transfer all eminity to the caster Dot timer 9 secs this effect can only be used every 2 mins. Note that flash is still 2.5 secs only the effect will be on cd. Still has the blind effect but blind is not on cd
    (0)
    Last edited by Jukebox12; 07-27-2016 at 02:32 AM.

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