Players Who Don't pull their weight.

[NovaLevossida]

Had an expert run last night that had another BLM in it. I got excited because about 80% of the time I get a melee who never AoEs. Instead, this BLM never did any AoE, only cast Fire 1 on every trash pack, and only used Fire IV at the start of boss fights.

Yeah...

[Greydor]

Had an expert run last night that had another BLM in it. I got excited because about 80% of the time I get a melee who never AoEs. Instead, this BLM never did any AoE, only cast Fire 1 on every trash pack, and only used Fire IV at the start of boss fights.

Yeah...

I call this specific behavior out sometimes. And, to be honest, I get a little harsh when I see that happen (I know I shouldn't, it's just frustration).

[Kallera]

The problem is, when you ask the game to enforce and punish based on performance, either its going to not match up to player expectation(read: the "I have this on farm" guy) or it will go too far and people will lose interest with having a sword of damocles over their own head.

[RiceisNice]

The problem is, when you ask the game to enforce and punish based on performance, either its going to not match up to player expectation(read: the "I have this on farm" guy) or it will go too far and people will lose interest with having a sword of damocles over their own head.

There's a line for that though; Should players be able to pass content/boss fights for not actively participating in it? Specifically the DPS for this example.

[Kallera]

There's a line for that though; Should players be able to pass content/boss fights for not actively participating in it? Specifically the DPS for this example.

well a ko is the ultimate form of not participating, should the healer be dinged for not raising? should the party be unable to clear for their fallen friend? so the Tank and the healer have to redo the boss because they are so vital, but the DPS have to redo the whole dungeon because the casters decided today they'll not raise and laugh their way to a slow clear?

hell, Praetorium alone would have problems like this in spades.

[DynamoAce]

I for one feel there is a lot more I could be doing as a Scholar. I go Cleric Stance as often as I can and throw out my buffs when needed but it feels like there's some things I'm missing. I find it hard to explain as well. >__< I suppose the best way would be to see me in action then give critique.
Two moves I find myself almost never using is Deployment Tactics (Its a move I really want to use more but never see the right opportunity for it), and Dissipation (I actually almost feel scared to sacrifice Eos ;-

[RiceisNice]

well a ko is the ultimate form of not participating, should the healer be dinged for not raising? should the party be unable to clear for their fallen friend? so the Tank and the healer have to redo the boss because they are so vital, but the DPS have to redo the whole dungeon because the casters decided today they'll not raise and laugh their way to a slow clear?

hell, Praetorium alone would have problems like this in spades.

Depends on how the KO happened in the first place, nor is KO the only form of not participating. Honestly this extremist outlook on every end of the spectrum is why these discussions go on for so long. It's not that black and white. Why isn't the healer ressurecting in the first place? Why can the KO not just release and run back? Honestly if you aren't playing your role why are you even in a party where your performance affects other players?

Players who want to purposely sit back and be a detriment to their parties shouldn't be given a pass on a clear or the end reward, is what I'm trying to say. Heck that sort of gameplay shouldn't even be encouraged by either the players or the developers, but the overall tuning of dungeons allow for that to happen, and the length of the discussion speaks for itself in regards to how people feel about it, but only because they miss out on the context on why it's the case, or applying it to the wrong context.

[Rawrz]

Two moves I find myself almost never using is Deployment Tactics (Its a move I really want to use more but never see the right opportunity for it), and Dissipation (I actually almost feel scared to sacrifice Eos ;-;

Deployment Tactics: Its your Shield Bomb. My favorite use for it is during Merry-Go-Rounds in A7s. Place Adlo on Eos after the fire marker goes out and even if you have the fire marker, go to your position and send Eos to the party. When that sizzle spark goes out, make your mad dash to the party. The sizzlespark will have destroyed the Succor you had cast before the firemarker was placed... but.. Eos will not have lost her Adlo shield. Raid wide AOE doesn't seem to affect pets much (if at all.) Spread with deployment tactics, and its an instant cast 300 potency AOE shield, ready for the next wave of enhanced Sizzlesparks.

It has other uses like spreading Eye for an Eye between two active tanks or spreading amongst the party if tanks lose aggro to the DPS. I won't use it for the obvious scenerios that take 20 seconds to go off, like Sephy Ex's Limit Break, where you have lots of time for a good succor and thats all you really need (Sacred soil if more.)
You'll use it often for fights that begin with heavy AOE, when you want more time for healer Opener DPS. Sephirot EX is a great example of this. You can have the monk mantra and the off tank War sit in Defiance with Conva on during the pull macro so that you can spread a +60% adlo shield. Think 480 potency. If it crits its 1440 (480x1.5 from crit x 2 from passive) potency worth of shielding PER party member. Thats about 15k worth of shield. @.@ Eons of time for DPS, between you and your burst heavy Coheal.

Dissipation: It is my one true love. Its penalty is steep, but so are its gains. Its our single target "Deathflare." 450 potency worth of Energy Drains or that clutch Indom/Lustrate that you shouldn't have needed. I try to plan my Dissipation for times when my fairy buffs are exhausted, swiftcast is returning within 30 seconds (or that I have a hard cast worth of none DPS interfering downtime,) and that previous Aetherflow is spent. Dissipation can be used to "scrape" your MP off the floor, if only for 30 seconds, to bide your time for an Aetherflow (3 stacks + 20% MP.) At 12.6k MP, this can really help after a raise or during a very long stretch of burst healing and unthrottled DPS. Its an "ERMERGHERD I CAN BANE HERE?!" Button. Healing wise, it has the most dramatic effect on Succor and losing your fairy wont affect your immediate AOE healing, since her cds should be popped already. Your AOE heals are 360 potency with it on. Succor, ET Succor, Succor. It makes fairy swaps, free and then some at the cost of her going away. You may be borrowing your co-healers MP, but you're also lowering their overheal, so they shouldn't be spending that much to make up for the 2k potency (200 Embrace every 3 seconds for 30 seconds) of heals youll lose from Dissipation.

Just some uses to chew on.

[Kallera]

snip.

When people ask for game systems to take into account player performance, just about all sorts of situations and abuses need to be taken into consideration. because however unlikely you may think those situations are(and a clear with ko'd party membes, even healers and tanks, isn't really that unlikely), they can result in ruined runs for players and spoiled victories for statics.

That healer can troll the system, because they are in fact participating, so whether they are punishable or not is very much in the air, and the healer can determine whether the ko'd party member can get the clear/lots or not.

Here's another "extreme example" for you. A static consisting of a DRK/WAR/BRD/BLM/MNK/DRG/AST/SCH get into a ex trial, and the game decides that the DRG isn't doing things up to snuff, so he is blocked out of the rewards. The other party members pull through and win the encounter. But the chest gives out the DRG weapon. What a fun kick in the teeth that would be on a friday evening.

[Greedalox]

When people ask for game systems to take into account player performance, just about all sorts of situations and abuses need to be taken into consideration. because however unlikely you may think those situations are(and a clear with ko'd party membes, even healers and tanks, isn't really that unlikely), they can result in ruined runs for players and spoiled victories for statics.

That healer can troll the system, because they are in fact participating, so whether they are punishable or not is very much in the air, and the healer can determine whether the ko'd party member can get the clear/lots or not.

Here's another "extreme example" for you. A static consisting of a DRK/WAR/BRD/BLM/MNK/DRG/AST/SCH get into a ex trial, and the game decides that the DRG isn't doing things up to snuff, so he is blocked out of the rewards. The other party members pull through and win the encounter. But the chest gives out the DRG weapon. What a fun kick in the teeth that would be on a friday evening.

So we're back at square one. First page of this thread. Nobody is willing to compromise for the health of the game, because bads will be bads and "elitists" will be elitists. It's the fear that flaws will exist in a system that cause the stagnation this game is suffering from at the moment.