I guess it's time

[zosia]

It is. Like it or not. When you think about successful sub-based mmos that are alive till today, it's normal to people say FFXIV and WoW (maybe EVE too) and there's nothing wrong with that. You don't even have to like FFXIV to acknowledge that it is successful, being a sub-based and themepark mmo in a time that this isn't a very popular route for MMO genre. If you love WoW and find it a better game okay, it's your opinion, but please stop acting like some kind of fanboy that insists in making comparisons without some kind of context. I'm sure that if WoWwas released in 2013 being a remake of a financial-failure game it would not have the same sales today, not because the game is bad, but because of the timing.

I never said this game was not successful. There is definitely a semblance of success, just no where near as robust as you might like to think. This game can't take it in the shorts like wow did sub wise. This game has a meager active player base and acting like the current end game is fine as is only exacerbates the problem.

An endgame climate where people are "giglamesh or bust" into this games 2nd (really it's 3rd) expansion is not a good sign. Go ahead though, pretend that everything is ok, pretend that this game is great at retaining players and pretend that the content we receive is both satisfactory in volume, depth, and quality.

SE the company, not the dev team, was hell bent on running this game on a skeleton crew and now it's starting to show. SE the company deserves to have this golden goose cooked, especially if ff15 turns out to be as clunky as the demo was at e3.

Alas, I don't even know why people are so surprised. I mean, it's not like FFXIV 2.0 was hardcore from the start, was it?
And still, you want the game to decimate just because it's a more casual-inclined game, seriously? So everything that doesn't caters around your interests should fail? Please, step out of your bubble. The world does not round around you nor should a game. To be honest, if you didn't care about the game you wouldn't be here discussing in this thread and if you're but still don't care, then please go make some tea, relax, find something to do because that kind of hate for a game is just sick.

I want this game to do poorly because it deserves to do poorly. No, the game should not cater 100% to me, that is ridiculous to assume I feel that way. What I do feel is that if a game is going to drag raiders through content the dev team cannot even clear in it's entirety (looking at a4s), then the players that participate in that content should be rewarded for such a monumental amount of effort.

ARR raiding was great and then the dev team took a big steamy one right on top of the raiding community in heavensward. Why am I so salty? Because literally almost all my friends quit because the endgame is garbage. While I have been complaining on the OF for months about what has been killing the endgame, the dev team has done NOTHING to fix the raiding community.

This game does not deserve end game players. If the glamour fest casual core crowd can't sustain the game after the rest of us "hardcore elite" leave for other games, then this title deserves to fail.

[Bubblegum01]

i was an avid raider throughout the 2.0 patch cycles.When 3.0 came, i cleared the first alex savage in 2 weeks but halfway through the second floor i realized i hate the new tier raiding. The effort i put in had too minimalistic reward, i need more than higher level gear that will only last 3 months to give 3 hours of each night of my life. So i stopped raiding. I wasn't crafting either since i hated the script system. So i decided to take a break from the game until the new patch so i can continue the msq. And that is how i've been playing the game. I would stay subbed for a month or two and then go on breaks until next cycle of msq. I don't feel burnout and it helps me to keep looking forward to new content patch. The game as it is now doesn't deserve my hardcore dedication. So i will play it like a casual until such time where the raiding scenes get interesting again. But i can't deny the game is not in a good place. Each patch i log in i see less and less players around the marketboard in the 3 cities. it's kinda sad to see the declination of the population. I hope that the dev wouldnlearn from their mistakes and do something to retain players in 4.0 cycles.

[Istaru]

Pretty much the entire game already. 90% of endgame players just farm currencies to buy endgame gear from rando npc x, y or c.

Personally, I think that is not a great place for endgame. Getting those currencies is super easy and requires no skill or dedication. Run an easy as pie dungeon once per day then get shinies. Furthermore, there is no risk therefore, no reward to speak of. Add on to that the fact that every 6 months we toss that gear and get all new gear. Rinse and repeat over and over and over and you get the point.

I love this game, but as time goes on, the lockouts for everything endgame and a lack of endgame content that is relevant to me is slowly sapping that. I do other things, hunt minions, gold saucer, gather, craft, etc. I do like how WCoM takes some effort and I truly hope they continue down that road despite the cries to nerf it and FSoF. For myself, finally beating something that you struggled with is the fun in a game. I know it won't happen, but I do keep holding out hope that we get content like the 2.0 relic quest that required clearing somewhat difficult content again.

Again, pipe dream, I would love to see unique stats again, cure potency +10? Yes, please! Only having Crit, Det, SkSp, SpSp and lol parry as our only secondaries really keeps the balancing very simple. It also adds to the feeling of endgame being very shallow.

[Iromi]

Unique stats would be amazing. But then you'll see the same old arguments of..wah excluded classes, wah balance, oh noes its "illusion" even although in 1.x, as I said a buncha times: with unique stats in 1.x I cleared every raid, primal fight and strong hold with one of each job..easily, nearly effortlessly and yes there is videos of it. I NEVER class stacked, never had a need to. There was room for every single job.

Just have to not think like a hive mind and/or learn how to play and how the game works.

[Velhart]

Unique stats would be amazing. But then you'll see the same old arguments of..wah excluded classes, wah balance, oh noes its "illusion" even although in 1.x, as I said a buncha times: with unique stats in 1.x I cleared every raid, primal fight and strong hold with one of each job..easily, nearly effortlessly and yes there is videos of it. I NEVER class stacked, never had a need to. There was room for every single job.

Just have to not think like a hive mind and/or learn how to play and how the game works.

Every fight in 1.0 the developers made could be beat with a normal party setup. Fun fact: If the player base can exploit it, they will. Stack BLM's on Garuda, stack BLM's on Cutter's Cry, stack BLM/MNK on Aurum Vale, stack ranged DPS in Dzmael Darkhold, stack Lancers in Ifrit Hard (because THM dps was pathetic in that fight), stack WAR's on Ifrit Extreme, stack ranged on Moogle. If fights in 2.0 could be exploited, it would have been, especially with the difficulty curve that raiding has.

Question, what -exactly- about unique stats makes the content you are fighting better? If you say options, I mind you that people will always go for what is best, no matter how you make the system.

[RiceisNice]

ARR raiding was great and then the dev team took a big steamy one right on top of the raiding community in heavensward. Why am I so salty? Because literally almost all my friends quit because the endgame is garbage. While I have been complaining on the OF for months about what has been killing the endgame, the dev team has done NOTHING to fix the raiding community.

While not as aggressive, this is how I felt with raiding as well. ARR Raiding felt right for me as far as the difficulty and design was concerned.

Things that I would be able to clear with my static in about 2 weeks for each turn doing 2-3hour nights for 3 days a week. I'm not going to cover it; savage is way too demanding of the group to be able to succeed and clear, and I do not have fun having to push for content like that in a game (and neither were 4-5 other people in the static). It all goes back to how there's a severe lack of middle ground as far as content is concerned, you have things that are laughably easy, EX trials, and savage. People will tell me that raiding in this game isn't for me...well it was in ARR, so what gives?

Question, what -exactly- about unique stats makes the content you are fighting better? If you say options, I mind you that people will always go for what is best, no matter how you make the system.

If it means new gear will be exciting, then I'm all up for that. I mean people do the optimization anyway, except the only thing we have to show for it is higher numbers. Not faster attacks, more procs or other bonuses. An example from WoW with tier sets was that it gave bonuses where you'd get a stacking buff from one abiltiy that boosted the crit chance of X ability, or a straight up increase to duration. Heck you could say it'd make it more interesting for theorycrafters to see if it's optimal for that bonus or get other pieces that have better substats.

The problem with trying to do something like that in FFXIV is that there is a severe lack of gear within the same relative ilvl. There's only ever two pieces in each tier that have the same ilvl, because we only ever get 4 bosses per raid cycle and theres no other sources.

[KitingGenbu]

Question, what -exactly- about unique stats makes the content you are fighting better? If you say options, I mind you that people will always go for what is best, no matter how you make the system.

You couple unique stats with difficult content, not everyone can acquire it regardless if its best. Raiders want motivation to feel like they are progressing, not just getting stats like everyone else can get. Challenging content is only good in the honeymoon phase then wears off after a person realizes that what they are doing it for is for minimal gain and will be obsolete shortly after acquiring it. People are throwing around 6 months but the average raider takes about a month to clear new savage raids or longer....The longer it takes, the less time they have to enjoy it before its obsolete or the mechanics get dumbed down because a majority of the community doesn't clear it within what the dev team feels is a reasonable time frame.

[DamianFatale]

I really dislike this thread. I think everyone is just upset because they are sick of Heavensward, and they know the next expansion is coming.

[Velhart]

If it means new gear will be exciting, then I'm all up for that. I mean people do the optimization anyway, except the only thing we have to show for it is higher numbers. Not faster attacks, more procs or other bonuses.

That is fine (I guess?), but just remember, they shouldn't add bells and whistles to gear in expense of the quality of the content. I am for set bonuses similar to WoW (if done right), but some slight restructuring would need to be done to the system we have now.

A system like that however can easily break gear options. If a 5/5 set has something that just blows the alternate set out of the water, that is pretty unbalanced. This was mildly a thing in WoW, at least when I played it.

[RiceisNice]

That is fine (I guess?), but just remember, they shouldn't add bells and whistles to gear in expense of the quality of the content. I am for set bonuses similar to WoW (if done right), but some slight restructuring would need to be done to the system we have now.

I mean...this is the case for any update they try to do. Unfortunately it really feels like a lot of corners were cut for hHavensward, and the players have paid for it. My point is that "people will always optimize anyway" shouldn't be a good reason to not add more diversity to something like stats, because people do this anyway with the substats whose only impact is your numerical dps, not actual gameplay. I don't even want to raid hardcore, so even provided that I'm in a static and we had a raid suited for us, I'm probably going to mess around a bit with something like set bonuses or equips as we get them, but I can;t even do that when they're literally nothing but numbers.