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  1. #1
    Player
    Iromi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,059
    Character
    Tilla Eversong
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Unique stats would be amazing. But then you'll see the same old arguments of..wah excluded classes, wah balance, oh noes its "illusion" even although in 1.x, as I said a buncha times: with unique stats in 1.x I cleared every raid, primal fight and strong hold with one of each job..easily, nearly effortlessly and yes there is videos of it. I NEVER class stacked, never had a need to. There was room for every single job.

    Just have to not think like a hive mind and/or learn how to play and how the game works.
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player
    Velhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    2,849
    Character
    Velhart Aurion
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Iromi View Post
    Unique stats would be amazing. But then you'll see the same old arguments of..wah excluded classes, wah balance, oh noes its "illusion" even although in 1.x, as I said a buncha times: with unique stats in 1.x I cleared every raid, primal fight and strong hold with one of each job..easily, nearly effortlessly and yes there is videos of it. I NEVER class stacked, never had a need to. There was room for every single job.

    Just have to not think like a hive mind and/or learn how to play and how the game works.
    Every fight in 1.0 the developers made could be beat with a normal party setup. Fun fact: If the player base can exploit it, they will. Stack BLM's on Garuda, stack BLM's on Cutter's Cry, stack BLM/MNK on Aurum Vale, stack ranged DPS in Dzmael Darkhold, stack Lancers in Ifrit Hard (because THM dps was pathetic in that fight), stack WAR's on Ifrit Extreme, stack ranged on Moogle. If fights in 2.0 could be exploited, it would have been, especially with the difficulty curve that raiding has.

    Question, what -exactly- about unique stats makes the content you are fighting better? If you say options, I mind you that people will always go for what is best, no matter how you make the system.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    KitingGenbu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    740
    Character
    Alex Carver
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Velhart View Post
    Question, what -exactly- about unique stats makes the content you are fighting better? If you say options, I mind you that people will always go for what is best, no matter how you make the system.
    You couple unique stats with difficult content, not everyone can acquire it regardless if its best. Raiders want motivation to feel like they are progressing, not just getting stats like everyone else can get. Challenging content is only good in the honeymoon phase then wears off after a person realizes that what they are doing it for is for minimal gain and will be obsolete shortly after acquiring it. People are throwing around 6 months but the average raider takes about a month to clear new savage raids or longer....The longer it takes, the less time they have to enjoy it before its obsolete or the mechanics get dumbed down because a majority of the community doesn't clear it within what the dev team feels is a reasonable time frame.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Istaru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    699
    Character
    M'telihgo Feilyon
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Velhart View Post
    -snip-
    Question, what -exactly- about unique stats makes the content you are fighting better? If you say options, I mind you that people will always go for what is best, no matter how you make the system.
    I have given this some thought as it is a very good question and deserves an answer.

    I will preface this by saying that I am mainly looking at it from my own perspective. A semi-hardcore player that enjoys midcore to hardcore content. I think that for the most part, people who get slapped with the "casual" title do not worry too much about the exact stats on gear or try to work out gearsets across ilvls and melding schemes and all of that. It isn't their thing and you know what? It's ok that it isn't. I can admit that most likely they are the majority of the playerbase and the devs should keep them in mind.

    Right now there are 4 options for gear, 220 crafted, 230/240 tomestone, 230 wiping city and 240 raid. We have 4 sub stats that matter for raiding, accuracy, critical hit, determination and skill speed/spell speed. Non-raiding? It is usually stack up as much of your main substat as you can get for that their only considering its balance against the main stay for your class. Raiders have to consider an accuracy cap as well. So, with this system your want list from the items is either 1 level, non-raiding only looking at highest combination from main stat and secondaries or 2 levels, meeting an accuracy requirement then the same as level 1.

    What could unique stats do about that?

    What if the calculations were situational??? What if for some fights, other things were important? What if item X was OMGAWESOME!1! for one fight but not for another one? What if some characteristic of a certain raid tier fight used the item with a unique stat like "ballad +3" for BRD instead of the item that had more DEX which was better for another raid tier since it could be hard on healers or whatever reason. I will stop the train here for a moment. I do want to say that I am not advocating gear swapping during battles, I think that idea was put to bed some time ago. I am saying that different gear being BiS for different fights might be something good.

    This does require other things to change. Why are all the endgame items U/U? That would allow people to use more than one to outfit their character. Why is every endgame item behind a lockout, with many of them locked out for 1, 2 or more weeks?

    I know the answer that is given is usually that people will blow through the content and whine a week later of nothing to do. Is that really any different than today where people cap out in a day and complain that they have nothing to do until next week. Obviously, they could do GS or whatever, but if endgame progression is their thing, then those activities are worthless to them.

    Still with me? Good, and if not, don't worry, I lost myself while writing this.

    I guess my point is that, despite how much I would like to see them return, unique stats on their own will not do much for fixing endgame gearing. Yes, I just said that. /cry

    However, as part of a larger change, perhaps including removal of daily/weekly caps, unique stats meant to fit nicely into certain situations could add a new level of gearing. Even more so if we toss unpredictable mechanics into the mix.
    (3)
    Last edited by Istaru; 07-15-2016 at 07:17 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Ceasaria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,332
    Character
    Ceasaria Pheonixia
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Istaru View Post
    text
    Yep, that's why magikolith (skills assigned with stones) from FFIX is one perfect solution for this.

    For exemple, we could have this :

    Imagine at level 60 we have 30 Magikolith points to put in passives skills only.
    Here a list of examples what we could have for passives skills shared among all job :

    - immunized against blindness (5 points)
    - immunized against poison (5 points)
    - immunized against mute (5 points)
    - immunized against petrification (5 points)
    - immunized against madness (5 points)
    - immunized against frost (5 points)
    - etc. (or it could be atleast a protection which depend on chance to avoid status effect or reduce it time like materias pvp)

    - resistance fire + 25% (3 points)
    - resistance water + 25% (3 points)
    - resistance storm + 25% (3 points)
    - resistance earth + 25% (3 points)
    - resistance wind + 25% (3 points)
    - resistance ice + 25% (3 points)

    - critical hit + 3% (3 points)
    - determination + 3% (3 points)
    - spell speed + 3% (3 points)
    - parry+ 3% (3 points)
    - piety + 3% (3 points)
    - accuracy + 3% (3 points)

    - regain HP + 1% (4 points)
    - regain MP + 1% (4 points)
    - sprint cost half of PT (5 points)

    ....

    For the passive skills for each job, I think everybody know what we could have and some have already written examples of it.

    I will just do it for the Scholar :

    - Broil potency become 200 (4 points)
    - Ruin II potency become 120 (3 points)
    - Adlo potency become 320 (3 points)
    - Dissipate add at the original effect : invoke the other pet instantly and reset his cooldown (5 points)
    - Emergency Tactic reduce the cost of mana of next Adlo or Succor by 50% (2 points)
    - Resurrection cost mana and cast time is reduce by 25% (3 points)
    - Energy Drain don't cost aetherflow stack but in return his cooldown become 40 sec. (2 points)
    - Shadow Flare slow become 10% (1 point)
    - Virus give additionally Poison to the target, potency 50 (2 points)
    - Eye for an Eye, the barrier effect has now 40% to be activated (1 point)
    - Sacred Soil give additional effect : HoT potency 30. (3 points)
    - Bio II have 20% chance to refresh DoT from Bio (2 points)
    - Miasma II have 40% chance to refresh DoT from Miasma (2 points)
    - Sustain cast become 0 sec and cost mana become 0 (1 point)
    - Deployment Tactics work on you (1 point)
    - Indomitability potency become 600, but in return cost 2 aetheflow stacks (4 points)
    - Under Rouse, the pet cast an additionnal Auto-Heal on the member of the team with lower HP (3 points)
    - Bane can now spread Miasma II and Virus (2 point)
    - Leeches cast become 0 sec (1 point)
    - Summon and Summon II cast time is reduce by 25% (1 point)
    - Lustrate have 20% chance to apply an shield Adlo on the target (2 points)

    Ok, I listed some examples, and I will not pretend it's perfectly balanced but it's an idea what we could have in the futur if SE decide to follow this path.
    (1)
    Last edited by Ceasaria; 07-15-2016 at 10:17 PM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Istaru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    699
    Character
    M'telihgo Feilyon
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceasaria View Post
    Yep, that's why magikolith (skills assigned with stones) from FFIX is one perfect solution for this.

    Imagine at level 60 we have 30 Magikolith points to put in passives skills only.

    -snip-
    I have some questions on how something like this could be useful for making items and the chase of them more interesting.

    1) Would you envision them to be U/U or just untradable?
    2) How are they acquired? Tomestones? Grinding easy content? Last stage of hardest raid? Complete multiple middle ground raids/EX content, etc?
    3) Do you get all the spec points upon acquiring the item or do you unlock/gain them. If unlocked/gained, ideas on how?
    4) Can you respec the item? If so, ideas on that please.
    5) How to handle items like this when gear has a 6 month or less expiration date before it gets tossed in the trash?

    I will add that I am really looking at this from the perspective of someone that loved this game and wants to continue loving it, but is having a hard time not being very disappointed with its current state at endgame.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    Ceasaria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,332
    Character
    Ceasaria Pheonixia
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Istaru View Post
    I have some questions on how something like this could be useful for making items and the chase of them more interesting.

    1) Would you envision them to be U/U or just untradable?
    2) How are they acquired? Tomestones? Grinding easy content? Last stage of hardest raid? Complete multiple middle ground raids/EX content, etc?
    3) Do you get all the spec points upon acquiring the item or do you unlock/gain them. If unlocked/gained, ideas on how?
    4) Can you respec the item? If so, ideas on that please.
    5) How to handle items like this when gear has a 6 month or less expiration date before it gets tossed in the trash?

    I will add that I am really looking at this from the perspective of someone that loved this game and wants to continue loving it, but is having a hard time not being very disappointed with its current state at endgame.
    Ok, this is how I will procede :

    It will be introduce through a new type of quest which guide us near temples in Paglth'an where we learn the existence of parchments, a magic artifact which can reinforce any adventurers.

    Once you have the parchment, you can learn the skill which is written on it and there is only one skill by parchment.
    The parchments containing the most basic skills could be tradable on market, other will not (with that, the new players will not need to go to 4.0 to enjoy the system a bit).
    There will be found in new type of shop where gils is necessary to buy them. Some could be buy with Tomestones.
    Some could be obtain from quest like MSQ, Warrand Triad, Hildibrand (which could be funs skills like "if you are dress like Goldberg, your will gain a super skill attack for your goldsmith), special quest with a new type of raid related to parchments...this raid will not give gears but parchments and book to buy parchments, like the gears system for Alexander Savage.
    The thing cool is, to be perfect with your job, you will need to do both raid if you want gears and parchments.

    The last way is through gear. Many gear, not all, possess an unique and magic calligraphy. Its power could be reveal once you have completed trials, dungeons or raid (or Fates lol) which are indicated on the gear (maybe others things to do).
    When you have acccomplished this task, you have to go to see the calligrapher. With the shining words (because of fights), he is able to see what is written and will put it on parchment.
    Then, you know what to do : read the parchment and tadaaa. You've got your skill

    As I said, not all gears will have this, just some...I want to say firstly the gears in dungeon because if it's not for the glamour, it is useless. So, there will have more gears in dungeons and the skills you will find on it will change. (SE need atleast to define which skills to put on gears with what are the things to do to unlock them). Some skills could be found easily in 50% of dungeons...but others maybe in just one dungeon...so let's farm
    (2)
    Last edited by Ceasaria; 07-16-2016 at 07:10 AM.